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Featured The Righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Martin Marprelate, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    You seemed to be saying that the Decalogue (in its entirety, I assume) applies to the heathen. That assumes their needing to observe the Jewish Sabbath.

    My point is that Sabbath observance is a non-moral law. It was purely didactic and prophetic. And for the Jews only.

    Certainly the heathen cannot be faulted for non-observance of a law that has nothing to do with them. (I am not speaking of the other nine. Clearly these all have universal application beyond the Judeo-Christian world.)
     
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    These are Gentiles in the passage. Non-Jews. Why do you keep referring to Gentiles with THE LAW written in their hearts as heathen?
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Paul stating that even Gentile who do not know God live better than Jews who claim they did, neither one were saved though!
     
  4. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    You again miss the point.

    Each part of the decalogue can be found in all heathen cultures. The worship of god, the having a certain day for that worship, the rules concerning taking life, violating persons, ... are all part of the pattern of that culture and groupings views.

    It is such, because it is written upon the hearts.

    Such keep what they consider a sabbath. Some even known to bring sacrifices (animal, human, vegetable, mineral) to appease the god they worship as the one true god.

    The decalogue was not just delivered to Moses but already a part of the human core of understanding.

    The Decalogue and all Scripture laws were given so that a written standard could be shown, and it not be claimed that a standard of conduct was established by someone for personal gain. Murder was murder not because someone thought it a good standard, but because it was written down and further explained as given to Moses. However, murder was murder already a standard recognized as evil from the time Able succumbed to Cain's assault.
     
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  5. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Because, these Gentiles with the law written on their hearts, as ALL people have who were ever born, were not saved.

    All unsaved are heathen hearted.
     
  6. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    As well they should

    Hebrews 7:3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually.

    An eternal being who else could it be?

    "made like the Son of God" - that is - in the Genesis theophany account.

    HankD
     
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  7. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    I had an Hasidim Jew tell me adamantly "Gentiles are not allowed to keep the Sabbath!".

    HankD
     
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  8. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Yes, but notice that this eternal being was "made like the Son of God" is also part of the creation statement made by God, "Let us make man in our image" and so all who are made in the image of God are "made like (the Son of) God."

    Because time and space are mere tools of the creator, there is no certain accountable way of assigning exactly who this Melchizedek really was, so I leave it all open to either it being the Christ, or one that represented the Christ at that time.

    A professor at one time posited that this was perhaps a pre-incarnated form of David or some other. That was going farther then I thought the Scriptures would allow.

    :)
     
  9. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Never met a 7th day adventist?

    "Free from the law,
    Oh happy condition,
    Jesus hath bled,
    And there is remission..."
     
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    - made like the Son of God - refers to the presentation account of Melchizedek (an eternal being) in Genesis.

    But believe what you will.

    HankD
     
  11. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    They are not allowed to keep the Sabbath.
     
  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Scripture please.
     
  13. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I presented the Scriptures, and you desire not to attend to them.

    Argue with the writer of Romans (2).
     
  14. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Can Jesus be made "like" the Son of God when He was, is, and remained the Son of God?


    Hank,

    I really am not making a definitive judgment, but establishing that there is room for allowing God to impress upon the heart what render as He desires to make prominent.
     
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  15. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Maybe in your imagination. No where have you presented scripture that supports your claim, "the law written on their hearts, as ALL people have who were ever born".
     
  16. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Well, all that is available in Romans 1 and 2 that should allow you to come to terms with what I have presented as the truth.

    But, because it seems that you would rather assume something else, I will remain as unimpressed with your thinking as much as you must be with mine.
     
  17. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    But why is the man not saved? Who are you to say that he didn't do everything he said he did?
    Ah! Now we're getting to the point! Why did the tax-collector go away justified? He had no works to offer (or if he did, he didn't offer them). He cried out to God and trusted in Him to justify him. He was saved by grace through faith.
    'Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified, for by the law is the knowledge of sin' (Romans 3:20). The Pharisee looked at the law and thought he could be saved by it; the tax-collector looked at the law and saw himself condemned, but to him 'a righteousness apart from the law' [was] revealed' (v.21).

    Indeed so, because our own righteousness is like filthy rags and to imagine that it can justify us is pride and blasphemy
    Well you are the acknowledged king of the snide remark and casual abuse so I suppose you would know.
    But I refer you to your remark on an earlier thread.
    Nonetheless, if I can be justified by love, I don't need Jesus Christ.

    Look, and understand! 'For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
    For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them' (Ephesians 2:8-10).

    We are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone (not faith in our great love or in our good works), and not for our glory, but to the glory of God alone.. At the point of salvation our good works count for nothing. 'In due time, Christ died for the ungodly' (Romans 5:6). Once we are saved, then of course we are to produce works of love as the Spirit works within us in progressive sanctification. A faith that does not lead to good works and to love is no faith at all (1 Corinthians 13:2; James 2:17).

    But at our best and our highest, we are 'unprofitable servants' (Luke 17:10). Anyone who thinks that his good works or his love to others merits him heaven is utterly deluded. 'For we all stumble in many ways' and 'whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all' (James 3:2; 2:10).

    'Jesus answered Him, "The first of all the commandments is, 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment.
    And the second, like it, is this: You shall love your neighbour as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these"' (Mark 12:29-31).


    Those verses should bring all our pride down to the dust and make us give thanks that salvation is by grace through faith. Because none of us lives up to this. None of us can keep these two commandments, let alone all the other ones.
    Who else but God the holy Spirit? But He gives these things to us when we are justified by grace through faith.
     
  18. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Some take that view, but I do not. Melchisadec was a flesh and blood Priest in Abraham's day, nothing more.

    I think it borderline heresy to equate Christ with a man.

    You need to understand that prior to that body being created in Mary's womb...there was no Jesus Christ. He has, as the Savior of the World, a beginning in time.

    It is the Son of God that is Eternal, and in fact the Creator. And even if Melchisadec was a Christophany, that is no more Jesus Christ than the body He took upon Himself when He visits Abraham in Genesis 18.


    I might suggest the same.

    ;)


    It is a Theological wonder, and in my view, the crown jewel of the New Testament. This book enlightens one to an understanding of the Old Testament, and bridges figure with reality, the giving of Promise and the bestowal of those Promises. It is a straightforward declaration of the necessity to embrace the New Covenant, and to understand the more complete knowledge of Christ.


    Agreed.

    If you would like to start a thread and present why you make Melchisadec Christ, I'll be happy to participate. But I think it better not to depart further from the scope of the OP oif this thread.


    God bless.
     
  19. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    'Because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them............Who, knowing the righteous judgement of God that those who practise such things are worthy of death......... for when the Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things of the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written on their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them' (Romans 1:19, 32; 2:14-15).
     
  20. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Sorry, Jesus Christ did not appear as the Angel of the Lord.

    That was the Son of God prior to His Incarnation.

    ;)


    God bless.
     
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