In a recent thread that was closed we saw conclusively that God has a Covenant children that are Given by the Father to the Son.
Far from being a "man made doctrine"...it is a divinely revealed truth.
The Lord Jesus Christ revealed the Father during the time of His incarnation.
As a part of that additional revelation He revealed the Covenant of redemption in these words in John 6;
All that the Father gives to me shall come to me, and him that comes to me I will in no wise cast out:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
This is clear and certain language. A multitude of people are given to the Son who will seek and save them. This is so clear only a mad man would seek to oppose it:laugh:
How much comfort do you take in such solid promises knowing the same truth has been revealed in Hebrews 2;9-17 ?
The same Children....Jn6.....Hebrews 2
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, Jun 29, 2015.
Page 1 of 2
-
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
John 17:2:
"For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him." -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Clearly it is not all men who ever lived...but only those GIVEN.....
SEE THE PROMISE HERE;
24 Father,
1] I will that they also,
2] whom thou hast given me,
3] be with me
4] where I am;
that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
only a person with a wrong worldview would not rejoice in this:wavey::thumbs: -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
CHS......on why not all men are coming......
http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0182.htm
Speaking of those who come;
-
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
on Heb2...CHS;
-
1012 The Unbeliever's Unhappy Condition
THE UNBELIEVER'S UNHAPPY CONDITION.
NO. 1012
A SERMON DELIVERED ON LORD'S-DAY MORNING, SEPTEMBER 24TH, 1871,
BY C. H. SPURGEON,
Still the same Spurgeon. The unsaved can hear, understand and believe the gospel, as Spurgeon constantly urges them to do. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
From that same sermon;
Notice he loved souls enough to even warn those in the church who hold correct doctrine to make sure Christ was the true object of faith...even if they professed to hold the 5 pts. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
from the same sermon;
-
Remember the text of the sermon:
"He that believed, not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." — Joh 3:36.
Now you quote from the sermon:
You shall not see life, but you shall feel wrath to the uttermost. It is horror enough that wrath should be on you now, it is horror upon horrors, and hell upon hell, that it shall be upon you for ever.
But his emphasis is on believing or not believing, not on election or predestination.
All of the responsibility is put on the unconverted, the unbeliever to read the gospel, understand it, and on that basis choose Christ.
That is the total opposite of what you have been saying in the last thread. Spurgeon believes there is no reason for the unconverted that they cannot understand the gospel so that they cannot be saved. It is their responsibility to understand it and then to believe it, or they will face the horrors of hell. Not once did he mention they were predestined to go there.
In fact, Spurgeon is appalled at those who pretend they have an excuse for not believing. Read carefully:
-
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Sometimes he spoke of one aspect.....sometime another.
The other sermon I posted a bit from was named....Human Inability.
This thread is about these two sections of Scripture and how they mesh together.
Spurgeon believed Adam and all men with him DIED at the fall.They were not only wounded as you suggest.
Spurgeon did not believe that as his sermons and the Catechism he used teach truth on these matters. No he remained faithful to scripture and preached on both sides of the sword as he railed against Arminian thought.
Now you say the emphasis was on believing or not believing. ...but not election or predestination as if they are two separate and unrelated things......this is where you go wrong again.
Biblical theology links all things together. Once again.....every verse does not use every word or every doctrine does not have to be mentioned every single time. .....but the truth does nor disappear as you would want it to.
For anyone to suggest that CHS was not a full 5 pt Christian is dishonest.......so.I am sure you are not suggesting that.....right? -
Here are some snips from Charles H. Spurgeon's sermon : The Blood Of The Everlasting Covenant.
"All for who Christ died shall be pardoned, all justified, all adopted. The Spirit shall quicken them all, shall give them all faith, shall bring them all to heaven..."
"...let us see what were the objects of this covenant. Was this covenant made for every man of the race of Adam? Assuredly not..."
"The covenant --to come at once straight to the matter, however offensive the doctrine may be --the covenant has relationship to the elect and none besides. Does this offend you?" -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
But according to Romans many things will occur for a person until Faith in Christ comes.
Because of the Covenant of Grace in the Dispensation of Grace all mankind can be saved by Faith in Christ plus nothing. They must only believe in the Savior, that is the Lord Jesus Christ. -
Spurgeon would consider you a rabid hyper-Calvinist and would disagree with you if he were alive today.
In the same sermon that I quoted from yesterday I will quote from again:
"The most needful point was looking to Jesus." That is not what you believe.
Is it? -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Rmc
Hebrews 11 is the faith chapter and that is great all by itself......
This thread however is about the children given from The Father to The Son.
Try and address that idea.
1 jn 2 dealing with propitiation is also a good topic and yet that also is not the topic of this thread.
It looks like you are still not understanding biblical propitiation yet.....perhaps we can have a thread or two on it.
Yes......you are raising issues....now your dispensation of grace idea......not the focus here.
Focus on the children given by the Father..... -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I posted from Spurgeon to show what he actually believed as he used the same Confession and Catechism I use.
Your attempt to try and portray me as dishonest is both shallow and disingenuous :thumbs:
Spurgeon would give 4 thumbs up to my posts and reject yours.When I get to a Keyboard I will bury you in a new thread of Spurgeon sermons and quotes that reject your falsehoods quite clearly.
Others here who have read Spurgeon know what is coming....lol....:laugh::laugh:
I have all of Spurgeon writings.....all his sermons.....I know what you do not but as you persist in your dishonest statements I will take it upon myself to help you get your mind right....:thumbs: -
SovereignGrace Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
You can see the central theme of the bible is Christ and His peoples.
In Ezekiel 34, this is a wonderful picture of Him being their Shepherd.
In Hosea, you can see a picture of Christ being the ever faithful Husband who buys His bride back.
In Exodus 12, you can see Him as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
In Leviticus 16, you can see Him as the Sinbearer by being the Scapegoat that took their sins into the wilderness.
In Numbers 20, you can see Him as the Rock that brought forth water after it was smoted by Moses.
In all of these passages, there was a peoples God had in mind, His sheep, the Lamb's bride. -
I gave you one solid sermon on a text on John 3:36 which, if exegeted properly, requires one to admit that one must believe in order to be saved. Spurgeon knew that and is honest in his exegesis. The Calvinists here are not honest but cling to their Calvinism in spite of what the Bible says.
Spurgeon set aside his Calvinism when the Bible said otherwise. He admitted as much.
They confess all the five points of Calvinism, but they have not come to the one most needful point of looking unto Jesus, that they may be saved.
--But your devotion to Calvin and your pride won't allow you to do the same. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
DHK
Even as a professed Calvinist you don't agree with what Spurgeon believed. He believed that Salvation was by faith in Christ, that one must believe in order to be saved.
"The most needful point was looking to Jesus." That is not what you believe.
Is it?
Once again you try and speak for me and show yourself to need to sit in the corner like a bad little boy wearing the dunce cap....lol
Every Christian believes in the 5 solas....Do not a. Use me of such a thing unless you post where I say such -
In a now closed thread, in this post:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2238443&postcount=308
you said:
Go home and read your Bibles. Understand what the Gospel is. There is no excuse for you not to understand. We are not in the middle of Africa. There is no excuse for your unbelief. There is no excuse for you not to be saved.
This is directly opposite to what you believe.
He does not believe in the doctrine of reprobation. If he does he contradicts himself in this sermon where he tells the unconverted to go home, understand, and believe. You have no excuse.
He preaches sola fide; you throw it out the window.
Page 1 of 2