Jesus said:
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
One of the results of His resurrection was giving the opportunity for all men to be saved. Here, "all" means "all." It does not speak of the elect. Eisegesis not permitted.
I am not going to get into a Cal/Arm debate with you here in this forum. There is another forum for that. Take it there.
Please don't derail this thread into Calvinism.
"the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me forever"
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by beameup, Jun 5, 2015.
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2 Thessalonians 2:10-12... they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved...And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth.
It plainly says that no one will be saved. God will send them a strong delusion that they should believe a lie--the lie that the Antichrist is god. -
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, (ie: miracles) 2 Thes 2:9 -
The "all Israel" that will be saved mentioned in Romans 11:26 is all of God's elect (both the remant according to election of the Jew and also the Gentile).
This is precisely what the apostle had already expressed in plain language , "Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." (Galatians 3:7). "29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise" (Galatians 3:29) The same truth is taught plainly earlier in Romans in 4:13-16, "13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,"
The body is composed of the believing "remnant" of the natural Israel (the "remnant according to the election of grace" Romans 11:5) with the addition thereto of believing Gentiles. This is why Paul says, "...For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel" (Romans 9:6). The next two verses make the matter still cleared. We read, "7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
(Romans 9:7-8).
Paul returns to the matter that was causing him such acute sorrow, namely that, as Isaiah had prophesied, "27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: (Romans 9:27)
God bless,
Brother Joe -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
DHK
In fact everyone else see's this also. PreachingJesus, SG, Gtim, OR,your error is in neon lights......except for your disciple...beamup:laugh:
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Iconoclast said: ↑Not one person that God has elected will be lost. Every elect person will become saved in time.Click to expand...
"Not one person God has elected will be lost."
Such a profound statement.
Not one child born to my wife and I will be my neighbor's child.
I can think up a lot of these "profound" statements.
Not one article written by Dave Hunt will ever be written by John Piper.
Not one apple on my apple tree will ever turn into a grapefruit.
The stone buried in the back yard will never grow into a tree.
(very deep, very profound, have to think it through Icon. There must be some loophole somewhere?????) :D -
Iconoclast said: ↑DHK
I have not only read the whole chapter...but indeed the whole book so I know what you say is false and misguided.Click to expand...
In fact everyone else see's this also. PreachingJesus, SG, Gtim, OR,your error is in neon lights......except for your disciple...beamup:laugh:Click to expand...
We just read these scriptures with understanding. It remains a mystery to you.Click to expand...
1. He is not willing that any should perish.
2. That all should come to repentance.
3. That Peter is not concerned about his readers either repenting or perishing but rather the lost who need the gospel and are not yet saved. The lost will not get saved without believers giving them the gospel.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Is Peter talking about salvation here?Click to expand...
What has Peter been talking about in this chapter?[/QUOTE
I gave you an entire list, a summary of the chapter. Did you read it?
Peter has contrasted the destruction of the ungodly scoffers, with the long suffering of God who is saving all of the elect.Click to expand...
Not one person that God has elected will be lost. Every elect person will become saved in time.Click to expand...
This shows a complete lack of understanding of God's electing grace in saving sinners. Your struggle to come to grips with truth continues. You have missed it again, but you vainly boast and try to lecture these men who do see it:laugh:Click to expand...
You have not only answered condescendingly and arrogantly; you contradicted yourself.
Here is what I posted:
And the Calvinist is going to insist that either Peter is not talking about salvation in verse 9 because he must be addressing to the elect and the elect don't need to be saved.
--Notice just above you denied that Peter was talking about salvation just as I said in this post!
--Notice you assert that Peter is talking to the elect just as I affirmed.
--Notice when you put these two premises together that it becomes the reason you give that Peter can't be talking about all mankind in 3:9 ("all should come to repentance; "none should perish.")
And yet your first premise is wrong and your conclusion is wrong.
But you don't know how to debate, just answer in a condescending tone with great arrogance, laughing and sometimes name-calling. That is not debate.
No...those who remain in Adam are not coming to the wedding feast, they are not included.Click to expand...
It is evident Peter can address both saved and unsaved in verse 9. If not, there is a serious contradiction. The phrase “longsuffering to us-ward” cannot be addressed to only the elect.Click to expand...Click to expand...No it can'tClick to expand...Click to expand...
The phrase “longsuffering to us-ward” cannot be addressed to only the elect. It must include all mankind.
...If it doesn't, then the following phrase, “not willing that any should perish” must apply to only the elect.
So God is not willing that the elect should perish? or that any man should perish? Which is it? I thought you believed in eternal security. Is God concerned about the elect perishing?
Peter says it right in this chapter;
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
Where did paul write this? right here;
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?Click to expand...
Does that describe the "elect"?
The gospel goes worldwide, but not every person is included...only those;Click to expand...
"Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature."
Those were the words of Jesus. The gospel was for every creature in the world.
that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory
If everyone was included no distinction would need to be made now, would it???
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It is exactly teaching that NOT ONE who God has elected will by any means perish...ALL WILL COME TO REPENTANCE
...because God has ordained that very thing.Click to expand...
Oh yes...in fact I have posted this kind of response 4-5 times in the past few months, yet you ignore such posts as you cling to your error as preaching jesus said to you.....Click to expand... -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
evidently that's as deep as I need to go because the truth eludes you so you try to make a joke out of the post that you cannot answer .
where Peter shows what what the long suffering is .results in salvation for those God has chosen to save
I mean its just as deep as I need to go but apparently t you can't receive it you can't welcome -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
no one called you any names al I did was speak about what you posted
what you posted might have sounded like an obscenity because the posting was so bad
correct observation on the nature of your posts is not name calling -
Iconoclast said: ↑evidently that's as deep as I need to go because the truth eludes you so you try to make a joke out of the post that you cannot answer .
where Peter shows what what the long suffering is .results in salvation for those God has chosen to save
I mean its just as deep as I need to go but apparently t you can't receive it you can't welcomeClick to expand... -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterDHK said: ↑As you quoted, Paul also showed that his "longsuffering" also resulted in "vessels of wrath." It works both ways doesn't it?Click to expand...
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SovereignGrace Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
DHK,
I started a thread in the Cal v. Arm thread about 'all' and 'ever' and 'world', &c.
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=100235
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