The ordinances of Christ are to be in remembrance of His death burial and resurrection ie, baptism reminds us of His resurrection and communion is to remind us of His death-shedding His blood etc.
Footwashing is a symbol of service and humility. The point is that we are to be willing to wash the feet of our brothers if so called upon, but it is about more of being a servant than an ordnance. The footwashing issue is meant to portray that Jesus was willing to do that which not even a slave of the Roman Empire was required to do (wash the feet of his master).
The Sinner's Prayer
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Tom Butler, Nov 10, 2014.
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Marooncat79 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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I have no problem with using outside sources for study, but I also think we've lost hold on the truth that the Bible is the source for us. These other books can help to build a base of knowledge, but the Bible should be the authority.
We might not agree on all things, Maroon, but it shouldn't stop us from being in fellowship. -
Marooncat79 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Please explain what you mean by saying "it is a means of grace" and it is "how we connect with our Savior."
I've known several people who believe that communion and baptism impart some form of saving grace, and I don't hold to that. Jesus imparts saving grace to us. Communion is done in remembrance of Him, for the covenant and testimony He delivered to us. Baptism is, as many others have put it, an outward sign of our faith.
Means of grace is another way of saying this:
The Reformed refer to the ordinary means of grace as the Word (preached primarily, but also read) and the sacraments (baptism and the Lord's Supper). In addition to these means of grace recognized by the Continental Reformed (Dutch, etc.), the English Reformed also included prayer as a means of grace along with the Word and Sacraments (Westminster Larger Catechism 154; Westminster Shorter Catechism 88). The means of grace are not intended to include every means by which God may edify Christians, but are the ordinary channels he has ordained for this purpose and are communicated to Christians supernaturally by the Holy Spirit.[12] For Reformed Christians divine grace is the action of God giving and Christians receiving the promise of eternal life united with Christ. The means of grace are used by God to confirm or ratify a covenant between himself and Christians. The words of the gospel and the elements of the sacraments are not merely symbols referring to the gospel, they actually bring about the reality of the gospel
Means of grace deals with the fact that the True Gospel is portrayed within the act. Reading scripture-brings about hope, comfort, and conviction of sin and is commanded in worship. Prayer reminds us of our sinfulness, and God's greatness. ETC.
I never use means of grace in a way to mean that they "add anything to our salvation", NO, they in fact comfort, sustain and confirm our salvation which is the Reformed View -
Marooncat79 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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If ye know these things, blessed are ye if ye do them. Jn 13:17 -
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Marooncat79 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I hesitate to use terminology like "teach them how to properly exposit scripture," as one man's idea of proper exposition might be different from another's, even though they hold to the same gospel. Some men teach that a preacher should never raise his voice; others that a preacher should be free to talk loudly, shout, etc.
Tony--
By exposit, I mean to set forth clearly what the Word of God proclaims ie, break it down for the people in the pew (not telling a bunch of silly stories nor irrelevant points. Sadly, it is greatly unknown to many pastors of our day). Tell them what the text is about and make practical application if/when necessary.
I would also say that we read from a total of 3 different passages each week with one of them being the sermon proper (what is actually preached upon). We alternate different books of the Bible and (reading completely through each) I usually make 3-5 comments about the passage which is read. Sometimes, it takes 2-3 weeks to read through a chapter which is ok. Feel free to hit me up on any of this stuff if you want--just inbox me and I will give you my number
Here is an example of how our worship might look--not always but close
Read Psalm 1 we read at least 1 OT and 1 NT book all the way through-either a short chapter at a time or break it up into smaller bits
Prayer asking for forgiveness and affirmation of forgiveness from God's Word
Sing a song-usually about the character and nature of God ie ascribing glory and honor to God Holy, Holy ,Holy or Lead On O King Eternal something similar
Read a Section of our Confession (we use the 1689 2nd London Baptist Confession)
Communion
Prayer of Adoration--Telling God how great and glorious and worthy that HE is without asking for anything at all
Reading 2nd Passage Sometimes from a Gospel or NT/OT depends on what book we are preaching through
Sing a song--usually about the Atonement of Jesus or Jesus proper Songs Like Fairest Lord Jesus or Nothing but the Blood of Jesus comes to mind here
Prayer for illumination for God to open our hearts to His Word
Read Sermon Passage
Sermon
Last Song: Something like The Church's One Foundation, A Mighty Fortress, or I Tim 1:17 put to music--ITs awesome man!
Final Prayer-Prayer of Supplication We pray for others here ie, those hurting oppressed etc and we always for missionaries and Christians who are being persecuted
Finale--a short chorus or Maybe Lead On O King Eternal
It takes about 1.25-1.5 hrs total -
Marooncat79 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
We may agree upon more than we both realize? -
You seem to place a lot of stock in what the early church did.
The early Church practiced feet washing.
And turning to the woman, he said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thy house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath wetted my feet with her tears, and wiped them with her hair. Lu 7:44
well reported of for good works; if she hath brought up children, if she hath used hospitality to strangers, if she hath washed the saints` feet, if she hath relieved the afflicted, if she hath diligently followed every good work. 1 Tim 5:10 -
Marooncat79 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Originally Posted by Marooncat79 View Post
...The early church celebrated communion every Lord's Day. I do not understand how we can be called Christians and not practice such...
You seem to place a lot of stock in what the early church did.
They were much closer to the "real thing than we are" :smilewinkgrin:
I am truly unsure how to answer this other than to say that there are some good things that we can learn and there are some things which we should avoid with good reasons for both of them,
I really am unsure how to take this comment--sorry man
Grace and peace
Bill
Romans 5:1 -
HankD -
Marooncat79 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I am unsure if this answers your question or not?
Grace again
Bill -
In like manner also the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do, as often as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 1 Cor 11:25
You derive from that any Church that doesn't practice communion each time they meet shouldn't be called Christian? -
Marooncat79 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Here is what I wrote in Response #51
The early church celebrated communion every Lord's Day. I do not understand how we can be called Christians and not practice such, since it is a means of grace and how we connect with our Savior (it is not a point of contention with me, but I just do not understand why a church would not want to practice it).
I am unsure how you got that from my response. My point is why would we not want to celebrate it? It is not something that I would want to draw battle lines on, there are much more important issues: The Doctrine of God, Justification, etc.
Again, why would we not want to celebrate it? I went to churches forever that only celebrated it 2-3 times/yr. -
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I would rather go to a church that holds Communion twice a year but stresses the need for examination before the Lord than go to a church that holds Communion every service, never mentions the somberness of it, and acts like it's a common event. -
Oh trust me, the actual communion service is a very somber event and self examination is certainly stressed with the PBs.
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Marooncat79 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
would rather go to a church that holds Communion twice a year but stresses the need for examination before the Lord than go to a church that holds Communion every service, never mentions the somberness of it,
BINGO!!!
and acts like its a common event
Communion should never be treated as "Common" or ordinary
By celebrating, I mean observing
Again, it is not a hill that I would die upon -
Marooncat79 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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are ye ignorant that we, as many as were baptized to Christ Jesus, to his death were baptized? Rom 6:3 YLT
Why does it not say we are also baptized to his life?
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