Featured The Sovereign will of God

There are different views regarding God's elect. [Matthew 24:31, Matthew 22:14.] Since I understand that term pertains to God's saved, I cannot understand the term to be in regards to the fall.

 

That’s a very good question Judith

1. We know from the scriptures that creation was good, very good (Genesis)

2. We know from scripture that God has created vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor (Romans)

3. Adam and Eve had true free will before the fall

4. We know that Christ was the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the earth.

The question then becomes how did God decree the fall?

Was God totally hands off? Some suggest this; however, that leaves chance and fate (which in the grand scheme of things absolutely nothing ie there is truly no such thing). So this is a fallacy

Did God decree part of the fall? Ok,? what part/s did He decree vs Non-Decree? Scripture never addresses that scenario, so it too is a fallacy

Did God decree all things concerning the Fall? The answer is yes. Nothing happens in which God did not decree it so, or else He is not God.

Scripture tells us in many places that God rules over His Creation including the affairs of men or in Daniel, we see a King eating like the beasts of the field. Why? Because God decreed it.

so, since the fall election should be seen as an act of Gods love towards some resulting in Salvation.

In other, we see that they were not elect unto Salvation ie They are left to their own sin resulting in damnation. Ex here is God saying that He raised up Pharaoh in order to exalt Himself.

So the answer is Yes. God chose (elected) to save A & E when He rejected their own fig leaves and provided them skins. We see at that point that they were elected to salvation as a result of Gods mercy and grace

salvation is exactly that, God doing for us what we cannot do ourselves. That is why the new birth that Jesus talks about in John 3 is imperative for salvation (the new birth leads to repentance and faith by Gods people which is why they are called Grace Gifts)

God could have and should have condemned them to hell (just as He should all of us); however, He has chosen to redeem a remnant unto Himself. We should understand (my opinion) that the New Birth and the resulting Faith and Repentance are gifts from God and result from Gods election of His people.

I would encourage you to read the 1689 On the Decrees of God. It will probably state it better here Than I did.


I hope this helps

 

That is not true. That is based on the RSV translating απο "from" as"before."

 

You are correct

 

I think that just OMNISCIENCE is involved … God did not fore-choose them to eat and die (it just did not catch God by surprise).

 

“For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—to the praise of his glorious grace…” Ephesians 1.4-6a NIV

We were chosen before creation, …God had a plan.
That plan was in accordance with his will.
The plan was to bring praise to his grace, through Jesus.
Without the fall none of this would have happened.

Now did Adam have a choice, was he able not to eat of the fruit of the tree?

Rob

 

What God did was give free will. He gave an option. And he told them a consequence would be given if they made the wrong choice.

You can not have a relationship with someone, unless you give that someone free will. If they can not chose their own will. Then you have a forced relationship. Which will never grow into a loving relationship. And will fail to benefit both sides.

 

Again, the new birth is something that God does to us and for us -with nothing in nor of ourselves motivating God. It is of His free love and mercy.

after our hearts have been changed, we respond in faith and repentance (again, they are Grace Gifts from God).

as to the last comment - “and fail to benefit both sides”. There is absolutely nothing man can do to benefit God.

 

Eve was tricked, deceived by the serpent. Adam was not deceived; he made a deliberate choice. He chose to join Eve in disobedience. He died to have his bride. Nice little type there of what the second Adam did to have His bride.

 

Some things never change. I was struck again, when I read this, with the realization that Reformed teaching gets everything exactly backwards, and here again is proof.

None of your physical ancestors who lived before the NT era were elect, not one. Salvation in the biblical sense is a NT doctrine. If it were not so, then our wonderful Lord Jesus would not have had to die for sins in the beginning of the 5th millennium of human history.

So, I take exception to your statement and would have it read like this;

"The words DO NOT mean we get saved because we are elect. The words mean we are elected when we get saved by faith. The reason for this is because there are three members of the Godhead and each have a different role in salvation affairs, and only one member does the electing, God the Father, when he gives his Spirit, who is a member of the Godhead as well, and it is because of the work of Jesus Christ in redemption as a man, who himself is a member of the Godhead.

I know discussing this subject is not the primary object of your thread and so this is my only post here on the subject, but I might start a new thread and we can then discuss it freely.

There is a corporate election.

 

@Judith answer this:
Matthew 22:14, ". . . For many are called, but few are | elect. | " Note: εκλεκτοι - eklektoi - elect. More are called than elect. How is it many are called who will not be or are not elect?

 

Yes, Adam had a choice.
The second question is more metaphysical and philosophical … like Schrödinger's cat. Adam did eat the fruit, so questions about whether God COULD have allowed history to unfold differently are forever “hypothetical”. Adam DID eat it (so the cat IS dead).

If Adam had no choice (God MADE Adam sin), then God is the author of sin (contrary to scripture) … is that your claim?
God created a situation knowing that Adam would ultimately choose sin … thus Christ would redeem mankind for our good and His glory.

 

Do you have a Scripture for that? Or is that just an interpretation?

 

There is no scripture that talks about a general calling... Called eternally saved!... not called, not!... But don't pigeon hole God, he shows more mercy and abundant grace to those called, then those on here give him credit for... He does it his way not theirs... Brother Glen

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

The only thing that Bible teaches overall is that the the elect are who are the saved. Such as Matthew 24:31, Matthew 22:14, 1 Peter 1:2. The rest is interpretation.

 

I think you left quite a few out... There is interpretation and also misinterpretation!... Few chosen for Heaven?... Think again?... Brother Glen

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Scripture NEVER contradicts itself, the contradiction is in the reader, never the writer!