It may not be the abomination of desolation, but rest assured it IS an abomination!
The Two Olive Trees in Romans 11
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Dr. Walter, May 11, 2010.
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Then we saw the definition of what a Jew is from Romans 2:28-29, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
So we said, this gathering spoken of is for Jews only? Hallelujah! We are Jews, so it is for us!
Then we rembered that Paul had said something about a "gathering", so we looked it up and found it in Ephesians 1:10:...he might gather together in one all things in Christ,..."; and we found how the "one" is constituted in Eph 2:
11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us]; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. -
Dr. Walter said:
The New Covenant is in effect since the death of Christ:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 [Whereof] the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these [is, there is] no more offering for sin. 19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And [having] an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. -
You clearly said they will be used to lead Jews to Christ in the millennium.
Now, Ezekiel 42:13 doesn't support your view. Again, find me some scriptures discussing God sanctioning sacrifice for the Jews during the millennium. -
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Amen Brother. Thanks for sharing this J.D.
"And if ye are Christ`s, then are ye Abraham`s seed, heirs according to promise." -
You are misinterpreting my statement. If you will kindly reread it, all I said was in the OLD TESTAMENT it did not lead Israel to Christ. In the Millennialium it will be used for instruction for those ALREADY REBORN Israelites. These are apples and oranges. The former it was being used to lead to salvation in the latter it was used to instruct the saved. Quite a difference don't you think?
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Ezekiel 36
My friends, the Preterist makes the same basic mistake as the A-millennialist in regard to national Israel.
Just because there is but one way of salvation for both Jew and Gentile and just because the Old Testament soteriological statements are applied to New Testament gentiles that does not mean that is their final application nor does it mean that God's election of National Israel to Salvation will not one day be fulfilled as well. If you think about it all Old Testament soteriological truths must be applied to anyone God saves at any future time as there is only one way of salvation from Genesis to Revelation.
Ezekiel 36 speaks of a future day yet unfulfilled concerning divided Israel being reunited under David. The Gentiles were never in a divided state with each other. Only national Israel was ever in a divided state with each other. It also predicts the salvation of all Israel in the valley of dry bones.
I would suggest to you that it is a dangerous thing to oppose Israel in soteriological prophecy because even you cannot deny they were the elect nation of God (Deut. 7:7-9; 9:5-7) and that election was based upon covenant promises to the fathers (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) and applied to ETHNIC NATIONAL ISRAEL even then and in soteriologial terms. This election is spoken of in soteriological expressions and election unto salvation is always effectual in the time appointed by God.
Romans 11:25-32 cannot honestly be construed in any other sense then national salvation of ethnic Israel at the Lords Return (Rev. 1:7; 7:1-8). Any attempt to apply it to any kind of MIXTURE of elect will not stand up to the context. -
What you fail to understand is that God's people are being saved today. Whether they be Jew or Gentile, they are being regenerated by the Holy Spirit of God today.
Again, find me one passage that speaks of this Jewish millennium you keep talking about. -
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In the Millennium it is not an either/or but both. The very image as well as the types will be used together in this Jewish dispensation and Jesus Christ will personally interpret the intricacies of the types to harmonize with the gospel.
You must admit at least that no one today understands fully the intricate truths found in the types of the ceremonial laws in the Old Testament. Then, they will and so will the Jewish nation for the first time in their history. The gospel will be illustrated in the fullness of Moses under Christ to National Israel and the entire world (Isa. 66). -
Let me ask you one question: if you have the very image, why the need of the shadow? The Jews, prior to the cross, had the shadows in absence of the very image (Heb. 10). The law, although glorious, was less glorious than what we have now (2 Cor. 3). This is in keeping with the fact that the very image of a person is far superior than a shadow. A shadow gives only vague facts, while the very image gives in-depth detail. We have something better than what they had (Heb. 7:19; 8:6; 11:40) Not only so, but read Hebrews 9:1-12. He plainly there states that, "the Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while the first tabernacle was yet standing: which was a figure for the time then present." These were things for a time in the past before Christ, less glorious than the plain and clear image of Christ, and now we have something better. When you have a clear picture of someone, you don't desire a shadowy image, a vague outline that needs illumination from a better source of light to bring things into focus. Why then, when face to face with Christ, our eyes beholding His wonderful face, would we need a goat to be killed and its blood sprinkled on the mercy seat? -
If you have ever taught through the book of Levitcus you must know that you as well as every commentator you have read plays guessing games with many of the details and what they mean. The types are complex in their details in regard to the offerings, in regard to the tabernacle and its furniture and to countless of other things. We are steeped in ignorance in much of these things so why is it "whackiest" to suggest that the Master teacher will enlighten his people on the very things He spent so much detailed attention with?
Even if you reject a millennium and a future rebuilding of the temple with its ceremonial systems for any reason, would you not want to know how those details apply to Christ and our salvation? What better way for the Master Himself to provide a "show and tell" instruction?
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When therefore ye see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand), Mt 24:15
But when ye see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not (let him that readeth understand), then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains: MK 13:14
But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand. Lu 21:20
The abomination of desolation was the Roman armies that were to destroy Jerusalem. See also:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=63301 -
There's no need for a physical temple to teach God's people, we'll have the real thing. The temple was itself a shadow of Christ. The true temple, the better temple, will be there and we'll be adoring Him. Christ doesn't need a material temple to teach us. If an imperfect preacher using nothing more than the scriptures can teach God's people what those things meant and how much better Christ is, how much more can the Great Preacher teach His people without the need of a material temple and spilling the blood of animals! I have no desire to witness a blood sacrifice in a reconstructed temple because I have the scriptural account of a better sacrifice, one that actually put away sins, one that actually saved me, and one that made the other sacrifices and oblations to cease forever! -
That is after Revelation 22:1 not before
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I used to hold this position along with its counterpart interpretation to Daniel 9:26. However, Matthew 24:29 and the words "immediately after the tribulation of those days" and the events of vv. 30-31 will not harmonize with that position. Any way you cut it, even your position must acknowledge there is a secondary and final fulfilment of verses 30-31 yet in the future to the actual literal second coming of Christ from heaven when every eye sees Him. That being said, this also provides for a secondary application of Matthew 24:15-18 due to the same words "immediately after".
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