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Featured The WILL of God

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Feb 22, 2021 at 3:57 AM.

  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    It is argued by some, that, if God were to “will, desire, or wish” for something, then this will always happen. And, if it does not, then somehow it is seen as a “failure” on God’s part.

    Using this line of argument, verses like 1 Timothy 3-4, and 2 Peter 3:9, which speaks of the “will, desire”, of God, in the salvation of the lost, it is assumed that because God so “desires or wills” “every human being”, to be “saved”, then they “must” be. But, as we know that “every human being”, will not be saved, then God’s “will or desire”, has been “wasted” or a “failure”. This is used to “prove” that God’s “desire/will” cannot mean for “every human being”, and therefore must be taken to mean “the elect”.

    “This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Timothy 2:3-4)

    θέλω , “to will, be willing, wish, desire

    “The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,a]"> not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance” (2 Peter 3:9)

    βαύλομαι, “to will, wish, desire, purpose, be minded, implying more strongly than θέλω”

    Then we have passages like that in Ezekiel;

    “Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? ...For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live.” (Ezekiel 18:32)

    חפץ, “to will, to desire

    In the context it is very clear, that God is speaking about wicked, sinful people, who reject His Ways and Laws. Yet God says of these people, that He does not “will/desire” their eternal death, but, rather that they should “turn” (repent) and live eternally! Now, just because many of these people would still have rejected the Ways of the Lord, and not “turned” to Him in repentance, does this mean that somehow God has failed?

    Paul in writing to the Thessalonians, urged them to live holy lives, and to abstain from all sexual immorality. Paul says to them, that this is the “will of God”.

    “For this is the will of God, [even] your sanctification, that ye abstain from fornication” (1 Thessalonians 4:3)

    Θέλημα, “that which is willed”

    πορνεία, “of illicit sexual intercourse in general”`

    This command is for all believers. Likewise Peter says in his Letter, that God Commands all believers to be “holy”, because He is “Holy”. It is not just a suggestion, but tells of the Command from God Himself.

    “but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.” (1 Peter 1:15-16)

    “you shall be holy”, having the force of the imperative

    There is no doubt that it is the strong “desire/wish/will” of God, that His children are to live godly lives. Yet, we see from Paul’s Letter to the Corinthians, where he speaks of “carnal Christians”, some who were also guilty of incest, etc. We live in a very fallen and evil world, where many Christians, even leaders, are not living godly lives, and some have also “fallen away” from the Faith, because of their sinful lives. It is no doubt as seen from the entire Teaching in the Holy Bible, that it is very much the “desire/wish/will”, of God, that every single human being, did not sin, as God cannot “desire/wish/will”, the opposite! Are we to conclude from this, that, since it is very clear, that Christians do not “abstain from sexual immorality”, which must also include sinful thoughts, and do not live lives that are “holy” are pleasing to God, that somehow because God so “willed” this, and it is not the case, that He has “failed”? Absolutely NOT!

    The fact that God DOES “desire/wish/will”, that every single human being were to “repent and believe in the Gospel”, about the Lord Jesus Christ. Does NOT mean, that ALL have to do so, and if they did not, then it is God Who has “failed”! Likewise, when the Bible says that Jesus even shed His Blood for the likes of Judas, which is very clear from Luke 22:20-23, that if these were not saved, because they “would not come to Jesus “(John 5:39-40), that somehow the Blood of Jesus has been “wasted”. This is ABSURD! It is evident from the Teaching of the Bible, that God “desiring” certain things does not mean that they are “definite”.
     
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  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Only a "reformed" person who has very little knowledge of what the Bible actually teaches, finds what the Bible says to be funny! Shows the shallowness of their respect for God's Word
     
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  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    sbw, you have been answered on this issue in many other threads. It is very clear that you have plugged your ears and intend to demand your law-based system of salvation. Your obsession with the law as the means of salvation has lead to you creating countless topics where you attempt to pick a fight and call others derogatory names. This is your mode of operation. There is no need for anyone to rehash the same arguments over and over again, just because you cannot comprehend anything but a law-based salvation. If others wish to address you on this subject as a means of fulfilling your obsession, so be it. This is my only comment to you on this thread. There is no need to rehash what you have been shown on countless earlier occasions.
    May God remove the obstacle that causes you to struggle.

    Peace
     
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  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    1) Note the subject is not whether God wants autonomous decision on our part to fulfill His redemption plan, but instead changes the subject to supposed flaws in an opponent of Calvinism.

    2) Note the disregard for forum decorum, which is to address the position and not the poster.

    3) Note the bogus claim of sound arguments having been made in the unreferenced past.

    4) John 6:29, "Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.” (NLT)
     
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  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    What did you exactly from someone who is so blinded to the Wonderful Gospel of salvation to WHOEVER wills to believe. On the subject of salvation it is very clear that the reformed/calvinists preach what Paul calls "another gospel" which is a FALSE one
     
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    His desire is not same as His will, and He permits and directly determines all things!
     
  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    The OED says of this word, "Cause (something) to occur in a particular way"

    When you says "ALL things", then you muats also include ALL sins ever committed by all humans for all time!. This then makes God the "author" of our sinful actions, and impossible for Him to punish anyone for carrying out what He has "determined"! This destroys the Holy Character of the God of the Bible, and renders Him on the same level of the devil!
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Did you not read that I stated that God permits our decisions and also directly determines all things at the same time?
     
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    one simple question, do you really understand the English langauge? Your responses are nonsense!
     
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    What I find funny is your 24/7 crusade against bible truth.
    I might not know that much but I do know The God of scripture has accomplished redemption for everyone he has purposed to save. His is not wishing and hoping as you suggest.
    here is the biblical God my confused friend;
    9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

    10 Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying,
    My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:


    11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea,
    I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

    Compare that to your lame post....yet you suggest we have it all wrong.
     
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  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    1 you don't to read what I write
    2 you don't have to comment
    3 NONE of you "reformed" have been honestly able to deal with passages like John 3:16; 1 John 2:2; 2 Peter 2:1, 3:9; Luke 22:20; 1 Tim. 2:1-6, etc, etc, which are very clear passages of the Death of Jesus for the entire human race! Instead you guys 24x7 pervert the Word of God for your warped theology!
     
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Because you have not been given understanding yet, does not mean millions do not see the truth.
    if you continue to insist someone is perverted the word of God,find a mirror and discover the identity of the real culprit.
    On the other hand many have offered you correction. Could be time for you to come to truth
     
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  13. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    what you fail to understand, is that the greater majority of born again Christians, do NOT accept the teachings of the Reformed/Calvinists! It is not me, who disagrees with this perversion of the simple Gospel of Salvation for the entire human race. Through the centuries the Church has always taught, including John Calvin, that Jesus Christ died for "everyone without exception"! Here Calvin is right.
     
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    you mean "reformed" version of truth? No thanks, this will NEVER happen.
     
  15. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Most of the Christians since the reformation are confessional Calvinists. That is what you do not grasp. You slander millions of people with your false statements and subjective judgements
     
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    The truth belongs to God.
    If you desire to resist it, you can join the group spoken of in Acts 7:51.
    It is one thing to have questions or need correction.
    It is we quite another to actively accuse those who understand it of heresy...
     
  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    really? so what Reformed theologians have said, that Jesus Christ died for the entire human race, are making "false statements"?

    John Calvin on John 3:16

    "That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found inthe world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life."

    Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown, on 1 John 2:2

    "Also for the sins of the whole world. Christ's advocacy is limited to believers (1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:7): His propitiation extends as widely as sin: note, 2 Peter 2:1, "the whole world" cannot be restricted to the believing portion (cf. 1 John 4:14 and 1 John 5:19). 'Thou, too, art part of the world: thine heart cannot think, The Lord died for Peter and Paul, but not for me' (Luther)."

    Yet YOU and others like you on here, continue to reject what the Bible actually teaches, because YOUR theology cannot agree with it!
     
  18. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Indeed and NOT to "reformed/calvinists"!!!
     
  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Wow, you just cannot grasp what Calvin, Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown said in your quote. You don't see the universal call to reconciliation and the limited response to that call.
    Instead, you question God and his plan if humans are not the sole choosers of their belief system.
    I once had the same blinders as you have. It took about 25 years before God graciously removed the scales from my eyes. May God break down your stubborn heart.
     
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  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Yes...sadly he looks at it but cannot process it.
    He and others get excited that the "offer" goes worldwide.
     
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