In Other Words :thumbs:
The "World"
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Rippon, Feb 22, 2007.
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Thank you Princess. :)
john. -
God through Christ gives life to the world if the world will believe. Not all the world will believe but it is still offered to them.
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Do you really hate peas...or dislike their taste? Do you hate the health benefits peas offer...or just the taste? Do you hate the shape and color...or just the taste? Sounds like there is one element of the peas you "hate"...the taste. I don't think you really hate round little quarter inch green balls, or consuming something that will keep you healthy and strong. Same rings true with us. God hates sins, but loves the rest. -
If Christ was the propitiation for the whole of the race then the whole are saved.
propitiation : to appease or placate (an angry or insulted person or god )
And Christ did that didn't He? He placated the Angry God for us and if He placated the Angry God for us then the Angry God cannot be angry anymore and if He did that for all then God would not be angry anymore with any of us because Jesus placated Him on our behalf.
Which is it: God loved the entire race and His loves fails or He did not love everyone and His word and His love stay intact?
john. -
Ask my son if he hates brussel sprouts man and you will see detestation in it's full colours. Hate is apt webdog.
What is it that God hates about sinners? Sinners are no different than saints are they?
john. -
I'm sorry, but I don't read "God hates sinners" from that verse. Like I said to James, your son hates brussel sprouts. What does he hate about them?
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john. -
When I say I love football, but I do not like Ohio State football....is that a lie? No. Both statements are true.
God loves the world....
Now...going by Romans 9...does God also hate? -
john. -
or more literally from the Greek as it was originally writen:
let God reconcile you to Himself - Notice still them meaning is not changed. "Let" God reconcile you or "allow' God reconcile you.
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Please share how you think this harms Calvinism? I would see it as great support. The blood of the atonement was given for only Gods people, and not the whole world. -
But regarding the above and its difference with Calvinism is that Atonement is made on behalf of everyone (in my example ALL of Israel - Gods people but not all of Gods people were saved). Yet it only atones for those who will receive that atoning work done by priest. Those who will not beleive/recieve that work done are left without hope.
It is called Universal Atonement but is also Specific Redeption. -
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Scripture states it was given for the Whole congregation...for all the people...for Israel, ext... Atonement for them all and yet all did not receive because they would not believe. Jesus is the that same atoning sacrifice made on behalf of the 'Whole World' and not ours (believers) only. 'World' means sinners, it always has and always shall. Just as God was in Christ reconciling the "world" to himself but Paul beseeches (pleads or begs) THEM to be reconciled TO God.
BTW - of course the animal blood didn't save but was a looking forward to Christ Himself (receiving by faith that which God promised to them who obey). Have I ever contended otherwise, no. -
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
We simply are not lost sheep before Salvation. Before Salvation we have no faith in Christ and we do not belong to Him until we do.
A lost sheep is already a believer but has strayed.
MB -
Allan,
Just as God was in Christ reconciling the "world" to himself but Paul beseeches (pleads or begs) THEM to be reconciled TO God.Click to expand...
8And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.Click to expand...
BTW - of course the animal blood didn't save but was a looking forward to Christ Himself (receiving by faith that which God promised to them who obey). Have I ever contended otherwise, no.Click to expand... -
In the context that you used it, it would mean "the lost sinful World"...However what benifit is the BLOOD and death of Jesus Christ to those that GOD will/does NOT save by HIS GRACE?Click to expand...
He "bought" even those who willingly deny Him:
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
If one "needs" to know the benefit:
Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
RE:
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
John himself defines "the whole world" later in his epistle:
1 John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
So, the propitiation (satisfaction) for sin was made for the whole world(which lies in the wicked one (literally)), believers and non-believers, so that the whole world can have no excuse and every mouth will be stopped in that day.
Not only was satisfaction made for the world but the Holy Spirit is sent to the whole world (believers and non-believers):
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Indeed it takes an unattainable (humanly speaking) spiritual ability to believe on Christ and the divine conviction of sin is the only means of making the unbeliever potentially desire to be saved. without both the satisfaction for sin having been made (from the foundation of the world) and the conviction of sin provided in the present moment, no one could even hope to be saved.
Again, no one will have the excuse "I wasn't given a fair chance".
And again, we hear that it doesn't make sense that if Christ died for all men, some, many, most will go to hell (or words to that effect).
But, isn't that for God to decide what makes sense?
Isaiah 55
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
He does what He pleases even if it upsets us (yes, me as well-of course).
Psalm 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
There is another parameter:
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Hello Allan.
No, that is what you are discussing. I am discussing what the bible says concerning the "world". And it means sinners.Click to expand...
If God loves all sinners why does His love fail? Love protects and it is kind and if God created people for Hell He would not know why He sends them there because love keeps no record of wrongs. :) Read all about it in 1 Cor 13:4-8...
Love itself is defining the word 'world' in this verse.
I am discussing what the bible says concerning the "world". And it means sinners.Click to expand...
Which is it: God loved the entire race and His loves fails or He did not love everyone and His word and His love stay intact?
He fails at nothing, and if He loves the "world" sinner, whom Christ came save, and of whom He is the propitation of the WHOLE world (all the world) - then I guess you have some things to figure out.Click to expand...
You don't want to talk about love because love destroys the world in this verse, for you. If God loves all men where does this love go when men refuse Him? This must be resolved by you or you will stay with a false doctrine.
john. -
HankD said:What does it matter? God has His own reasons, He doesn't ask our opinion as to the "benefits" or lack thereof of anything He does.
He "bought" even those who willingly deny Him:
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
If one "needs" to know the benefit:
Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
RE:
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
John himself defines "the whole world" later in his epistle:
1 John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
So, the propitiation (satisfaction) for sin was made for the whole world(which lies in the wicked one (literally)), believers and non-believers, so that the whole world can have no excuse and every mouth will be stopped in that day.
Not only was satisfaction made for the world but the Holy Spirit is sent to the whole world (believers and non-believers):
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Indeed it takes an unattainable (humanly speaking) spiritual ability to believe on Christ and the divine conviction of sin is the only means of making the unbeliever potentially desire to be saved. without both the satisfaction for sin having been made (from the foundation of the world) and the conviction of sin provided in the present moment, no one could even hope to be saved.
Again, no one will have the excuse "I wasn't given a fair chance".
And again, we hear that it doesn't make sense that if Christ died for all men, some, many, most will go to hell (or words to that effect).
But, isn't that for God to decide what makes sense?
Isaiah 55
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
He does what He pleases even if it upsets us (yes, me as well-of course).
Psalm 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
There is another parameter:
Click to expand...
I notice that you posted a few verses that you feel carry the idea that the word "world" means all of mankind. As to the OP, does the "world" always mean all of mankind?
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