Featured To Obey God rather than tradition is legalism? Really??

I do not deny that the Sabbath in the frame work of the OLD COVENANT was given to Israel ALONE. No argument there. Neither do I argue that the same Sabbath with that framework was abolished (Col. 2:16).

Neither do I argue that the Creation Sabbath was fettered by the Leviticual restrictions but was designed as a day for man's benefit and public worship in "spirit and in truth" as a day of rejoicing and gladness (Psa. 118:24).

Here is where we part company. Again, Jesus said the "Sabbath was made for man" not merely the Jew. No Jews were existent when the Sabbath "was made" and so it could not possibly have been "made" for the Jews.

Where we agree is that the Sabbath within the OLD COVENANT and its Levitical restrictions was abolished.

Where we disagree is the creational Sabbath and its application to New covenant saints - Mk. 16:9; Heb. 4:1-14; Rev. 1:10.

 

Impossible! Look at verse 4-5. God was going to test them concerning this law even before he gave them manna. That proves "my law" already existed and was known among the Jews.

4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.

 

What does "made for" mean?
If I am a carpenter I can make a bed for my son. He does not become a slave to the bed. The bed is his to do as he wishes. I made it for him. The Sabbath was made for us; not the other way around. We are not slaves to it. There is no law requiring us to keep it. What law requires the Gentile believer to keep the Sabbath. The only laws that exist, (concerning the Sabbath) were written to the Jews. There are no laws written to Gentile believers to keep the Sabbath--none.
There is no law in Genesis 2:2,3. There is no command there.
There is no command in Mark 7--none. The statement that the Sabbath is made for man is not a command.

You are a Calvinist and therefore (I assume) a covenant theologian.
The Bible says:
Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
--The covenants were given to Israel.
The only covenant given to the NT believer is the relationship he has with Jesus Christ.

The only principle that is given is given in Genesis 2:3 and that is a principle of rest--man should rest one day in seven. Moody taught that principle if you read him carefully enough.
He rested on Saturday; worked on Sunday, but encouraged others to take their rest on Sunday which he called the Christian sabbath--his day of work.

 

You are building a straw man argument. I have already conceded the Sabbath as defined and contained in the Levitical law of the Old Covenant has been abolished. So there is no servitude in the creation sabbath observance any more than obeying any other commandment in scripture. The Bible says that his commandments are not "grevious" and you are trying to place the creation Sabbath in a "grevious" light. I plainly spelled out the observance according to Psalm 118:24 to be a joy and delight.

You are making something very difficult that is quite simple. God did not make the creation Sabbath for man to do with it whatever he wishes as Genesis 2:3 says it was "set apart" or sanctified and that principle is set forth by Isaiah 53:12. It is called "the Lord's day" not "the Man's day."

Apply this logic to any other commandment in scripture. Apply it to the "Lord's Supper." The very word translated "Lord's" in both 1 Cor. 11:20 and Revelation 1:10 implies that both are observed in keeping with the Lord's teachings. Does that make us slaves and in servitude to the Sabbath any more than to the Lord's Supper???

Gen. 2:2-3; Psal. 118:24 ("made" same word translated "observe" in the fourth commandments; Mk. 16:9; Heb. 4;9-10; Rev. 1:10; Mk. 2:27; etc.).

I am neither. I am not a Calvinist as I despise most of what Calvin taught. I am not a "covenant" theologian but a dispensational post-trib pre-millennialist. I am simply not a "hyper" dispensationalist. I believe in the yet future salvaiton of the whole nation of Israel and the premillennial reign of Jesus Christ on this present restored earth.

Again, I believe the whole Old Covenant Sabbath with its levitical restrictions are abolished.

However, I do not believe ANY of the Ten commandments began with Israel or Mount Sinia or with the Old Covenant as you can find ALL of them prior to Mount Sinai and violated since the Genesis 4. ALL of the ten commandments are written in the heart under the New Covenant (2 Cor. 3:3) and they are ALL repeated in the New Testament (James 2:10-11) because to violate ONE is to violate ALL.

The Law was never given to save, justify, sanctify or obtain heaven for believers before or after Calvary but to instruct them in the nature of good and evil and they are still to be used for that.

You need to study the Biblical meaning of "rest" more thoroughly as it involves more than PHYSICAL rest but SPIRITUAL rest and the idea of FELLOWSHIP with God. It is a public day of physical and spiritual rest in fellowship with God. The Sabbath is more than gospel rest because all before the cross entered into gospel rest (Heb. 4:2-3) and yet observed the Sabbath. It is not fulfilled until man is redeemed in spirit, soul and body and literally enters a new creation where God can again say "It is very good" and that day has not yet come but it is still future (Heb. 4:11).

 

Perhaps it is.
I find no command for the Gentile to keep the Sabbath.

The "Sabbath" and the "Lord's Day" are two different terms.
There is no "sabbath" in Genesis 2:3; neither is there any command to keep a day holy or remember it or any command at all. This is one verse that is overused, and eisegeted far too much.
You have pointed out yourself that it is one day in seven, and until the law came it could be any day; just one day in seven. The "sixth" day could have been every Wednesday. It is a "circular week."

The Lord's Supper is an ordinance--a command that we are to keep.
There is no command to keep the Sabbath--a Jewish ordinance. It is just not there; not in this dispensation.

Where is the command?
There is no command in Gen.2:3.
There is no command in the gospels.
There is no command in Rev.1:10
There is no command in Heb.4.
There is no command for the Gentile believer in this dispensation.

That is what I originally thought. But some of your posts in the Baptist Theology forum started me thinking that you might be Calvinist.

But the Sabbath is never given to the Gentiles. It is not part of the moral law. There is nothing moral or immoral about keeping the Sabbath law. If one kills or steals then they have wronged another. But if they break the Sabbath they have not wronged anyone, not even God. God has not written this law on man's heart. Other laws, yes; but not the fourth commandment.

Keeping the Sabbath does not show anyone the difference between good and evil. It does not fulfill the purpose of the law that you just stated. There is nothing moral or immoral about keeping this law. Why? Because it is applicable only to the Jews. It is not given to the Gentiles. You must find a clear-cut command for the Gentile to keep this command for this dispensation.

Keeping the fourth commandment has nothing to do with "entering into his rest, and salvation. That is spiritualizing the Scripture a bit too much. It is true that Christ is our Sabbath. But that is not the meaning of the fourth commandment, and I think you know that.

Yes it is future. That has nothing to do with today.

 

The entire verse is:

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

The context is "marital problems."

Talk about taking Scripture out of context!!

 

I can't trust what you post any more Bob.
1Cor.7:19 has nothing to do with the Baptist Confession of Faith or the Sabbath, or the Law.
It has to do with marital problems.
Try being honest with your usage of Scripture.

 

Well brother you just need to look a little more closely. Hebrews 4:9 literally states that there is a "sabbath observance" for the people of God. Psal. 118:24 not only decribes how it is to be observed but uses the same word translated "observe" that is used for the fourth Commandment Sabbath translated "made" and means "made to be observed" and it is obvious that is what it means because it immediately tells how it is to be observed " we WILL rejoice and be glad IN IT." Mark 16:9 uses Greek terms that loudly demand that the first day of the week in Mark 16:2 "mia ton sabbaton" (plural) is to be regarded as the "proto" (first in a new series) of Sabbaths "sabbatou" (singular). The Greek term "kuriakos" is used in the New Testament only twice and both in its only other use in 1 Cor. 11:20 and its secular use refers to how something is to be observed.

Yes, but the Sabbath is the Lord's day (Gen. 2:3) in a sense that no other day is.

Your argument is with Christ (Mk. 2:27) not with me. He is referring to Genesis 2:3 and He calls it the "Sabbath."

The whole basis for Christ's response to the Pharisee is concerning the fourth commandment which has its basis in Genesis 2:3 and so again your argument is with Christ as He is arguing the correct observance of the fourth COMMMANDMENT based upon the CREATION Sabbath or at least He calls it the SABBATH.

Yes, that is true. However, I have also pointed out that nearly all the "Sabbaths" in the FIXED DATED Sabbaths in Leviticus 23 are found in a MESSIANIC context that anticipates the new covenant and they follow the numerical pattern of the first day of the week (1, 8,15,22,49). I also pointed out the Messianic prophech in Psalm 118:20-24 also demands the appointed and observation of such a day to commemorate God's work of resurrection. This is also reflected in Heb. 4:9-10 where a sabbath observance continues due to the finished work of a singular "he" who is identified in verse 14 as Christ and the finished work is that of Christ as our "High Priest."

Psalm 118:24 there is a direct appointment and observation stated and described.

Jesus whole response to the fourth commandment is predicated upon Genesis 2:3 which demands that Christ viewed it as a commandment but not intended to be observed acccording to the TRADITIONS of the elders which Christ violated but according to God's intent in Genesis 2:3.

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Dr. Roy O. Beaman was regarded as the greatest Greek teacher among Southern Baptists. It was my privilege to be a close friend to him while in Seminary. I took the wording of Mark 16:9 to him and we set down and I told him of the conclusions I had come to in my research between the normal expression found in the Greek text for the "first day of the week" in Mark 16:2 in contrast to the expression used by Mark in Mark 16:9. He told me that the language did support my conclusions. If you research the use of "proto" from where we get one part our our word "prototype" it always refers to the first in a series rather than merely a numerical designation of one apart from anything else. In the TR the singular "sabbatou" is always used for the fourth commandment while the pluar is always used for the first day of the week.

Both the Biblical and secular usage contains the idea of a correct observance and that is obvious from its use in 1 Cor. 11:20.

Hebrews 4:9 demands a present day Sabbath day keeping and it based upon Hebrews 4:10. If you would like we could start another thread just dedicated to Hebrew 4:1-14 and I believe I can prove this without question by an expositionary treatment.

 

You fully well know that this particular confession of faith does not intepret 1 Corinthians 7:19 any where near how you do nor does it apply it like you do as the article on Justification completely repudiates your interpretation of the law and this passage. You are simply a dishonest individual who has no scruples in perverting dead men's words when their own direct application of works to justification is spelled out so clearly that even a fool can see it does not match your position. And I quote:



Chapter 11: Of Justification

1. Those whom God effectually calleth, he also freely justifieth, not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ's sake alone; not by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing Christ's active obedience unto the whole law, and passive obedience in his death for their whole and sole righteousness by faith, which faith they have not of themselves; it is the gift of God.
( Romans 3:24; Romans 8:30; Romans 4:5-8; Ephesians 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:30, 31; Romans 5:17-19; Philippians 3:8, 9; Ephesians 2:8-10; John 1:12; Romans 5:17 )


2. Faith thus receiving and resting on Christ and his righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification; yet it is not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love.
( Romans 3:28; Galatians 5:6; James 2:17, 22, 26 )


3. Christ, by his obedience and death, did fully discharge the debt of all those that are justified; and did, by the sacrifice of himself in the blood of his cross, undergoing in their stead the penalty due unto them, make a proper, real, and full satisfaction to God's justice in their behalf; yet, inasmuch as he was given by the Father for them, and his obedience and satisfaction accepted in their stead, and both freely, not for anything in them, their justification is only of free grace, that both the exact justice and rich grace of God might be glorified in the justification of sinners.
( Hebrews 10:14; 1 Peter 1:18, 19; Isaiah 53:5, 6; Romans 8:32; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 3:26; Ephesians 1:6,7; Ephesians 2:7 )


4. God did from all eternity decree to justify all the elect, and Christ did in the fullness of time die for their sins, and rise again for their justification; nevertheless, they are not justified personally, until the Holy Spirit doth in time due actually apply Christ unto them.
( Galatians 3:8; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Timothy 2:6; Romans 4:25; Colossians 1:21,22; Titus 3:4-7 )


5. God doth continue to forgive the sins of those that are justified, and although they can never fall from the state of justification, yet they may, by their sins, fall under God's fatherly displeasure; and in that condition they have not usually the light of his countenance restored unto them, until they humble themselves, confess their sins, beg pardon, and renew their faith and repentance.
( Matthew 6:12; 1 John 1:7, 9; John 10:28; Psalms 89:31-33; Psalms 32:5; Psalms 51; Matthew 26:75 )


6. The justification of believers under the Old Testament was, in all these respects, one and the same with the justification of believers under the New Testament.
( Galatians 3:9; Romans 4:22-24 )

 

What day is pointed out in Genesis 2:3? What is that day's name. On whose calendar? The Jewish? The Arabic? Whose? Ours (Saturday--the worship of Saturn) did not come until years after. Why would the day to worship Saturn be substituted as the Sabbath? Only in your mind Bob!
There was a circle of seven days. None of them had been named.

God rested the seventh day. Perhaps the seventh day corresponded to our Tuesday. You don't know. IOW, there was no Sabbath in Genesis 2:3. The Sabbath did not come into existence until Exodus 20:7-11. That is where the command to keep the Sabbath is found. There is a law of first mention. Where is the first mention of "sabbath"? It is not in Genesis.

 

It obviously does not.
As I said, it is impossible to have an honest debate with you when you wrench Scripture out of its context. 1Cor.7:19 is in the midst of a chapter speaking of marital problems and you try to apply it to the Baptist Confession of Faith, and in particular the doctrine of justification. You are not even being ethical. You are dishonest.

Biblicist just finished quoting every relevant portion of that Confession that concerns Justification. That verse isn't even mentioned. Basically you have lied. You are dishonest in this debate, using Scripture out of context, and then applying it to a Baptist Confession when the Confession never used it. Try being honest. Why should people trust what you say? Give me a reason.

 

God actually consecrated the FIRST DAY for assemblies to Jews that were under grace BEFORE THE LAW and the Sabbath were given;


"And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you." Exodus 12:16

And guess what the first observance ceremony and its ensuing rules revolved around that began on the FIRST DAY was! A LAMB SLAIN, WITH BLOOD BEING POSTED ON THE DOORS IN THE FORM OF A CROSS. (John 1:29, Rev 5:6).

The sabbath was given as part of the law. After Christ arose, when the church is now under grace, we go back to the very same first day that was instituted to observe the lamb that was slain in the future, by remembering Him on the first day in communion by the blood and bread that symbolizes His death and our Bread of Life in Him. Luke 22:19, 1 Cor 11:24

 

Col 2:13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—

 

Yes, all the law in its connection with the OLD COVENANT has been abolished but the law was never given to save, justify or obtain eternal life in the first place but to merely instruct in sin and righteousness. Would anyone claim that "thou shalt not lie" has been abolished simply because its relationship with the OLD COVENANT has been abolished??????? The same is true for any of the ten commandments as they were observed BEFORE the giving of the OLD COVENANT and they will be observed AFTER the abolishing of the Old Covenant. That is precisely why Jesus did not go to the Levitical law under the OLD COVENANT to interpret the Sabbath but went to the PRE-Old covenant Sabbath in Genesis 2:3 (which he called the "Sabbath.") to interpret the proper application of the Sabbath under Christ.