I have read all the Bible verses you give. Can you please show me which one says that a sinner is "regenerated" (that is, BORN AGAIN), BEFORE the repent of their sins? You cannot escape the Bible fact, that it is UPON (Not before), repenting that a sinner is saved, BORN AGAIN, as this CANNOT take place before you repent.
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Total Depravity vs Free Will
- Thread starter tyndale1946
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And just what has Mr Casidy "got it to a jot and tittle"? He certainly has NOT on the subject of REGENERATION!
Jesus stated I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?[John 3:12] Jesus used natural things to explain Spiritual things. Like the natural birth as an example of the birth in the Spirit, regeneration. He used the blowing of the wind as an example of how the Spirit moves. No one can stop the wind from blowing upon them, and conversely, no one can stop the Spirit from moving upon them, regenerating them.
Now, look at Ezekiel 37. We see a valley of dry bones, very dry bones. There was no hope of them ever living again, left to themselves in that state. God asked Ezekiel if those bones could live again and he said only You know. So, God had him to prophesy for an earthquake and as the ground shook, bone came to its bone, then sinew and then flesh. However, they lacked one thing, LIFE. Then He had Ezekiel prophesy and the wind blew upon them and they stood upon their feet, and great army. They came to life, received life from the dead, through no effort of their own.
Then in Luke 7, the widow's son was dead, and was being carried in a coffin to his tomb. Jesus touched the coffin and told him to rise up and he rose from the dead.
In John 11, Lazarus was dead FOUR days when Jesus called him from the tomb. Through no exercise of his will, Lazarus received life from the dead.
In Mark 5, a 12 y/o virgin is raised to life from the dead(Jairus' daughter) by Jesus and no exercise of her will.
In Acts 20, Eutychus falls 3 stories to his death, only to be risen back to life by Paul.
In 1 Kings 18, the widow's son is raised to life by Elijah.
All of these examples I have shown you are natural examples of being brought to life from the dead, and they exercised no will of their own in coming back to life. These are examples of how the Spirit brings life to the dead, the spiritually dead.
Remember, those who are lost, are dead in their sins. Inwardly, they are full of dead men's bones. Dead ppl can't hear, see, feel, etc.
It is only after God regenerates them that they are able to hear, see, feel, etc.
I think you are missing the point of CONVICTION of sin by the Holy Spirit. Jesus says in John 16, "Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me" (7-9)
To "convict" a sinner of their sins, is NOT being "regenerated", which is the ONLY thing that takes place prior to a person's being born again. It is when a sinner rejects the convicting (hardening their heart) of the Holy Spirit, that damns them to eternal punishment. I fully agree that NO person can make themselves alive, but, this I believe the Bible teaches happens when the dead sinner, in who the Holy Spirit is working by His convicting, responds and accepts God's salvation.
The Bible says that it is because the lost REJECT the plan of salvation by God, that sends them to hell, and NOT because they are predestined or Jesus did not die for them. This passage is very clear on this.
"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)
But, you and Mr Cassidy keep using the WRONG term, REGENERATION, as I have already shown from Scripture, is the SAME as BORN AGAIN, SAME event different terms. You CANNOT be REGENERATED before you are BORN AGAIN as this is the SAME thing. It is CONVICTION that precedes REBIRTH.
Who has said that regeneration and being born again are different? Brother Cassidy & I have most certainly not. Please go back and reread my postings please.
From my post...post # 63...
I am saying the new birth, the birth of the Spirit, IS regeneration. They are the same thing...
I am saying the new birth, the birth of the Spirit, IS regeneration. They are the same thing...
I will answer this in greater detail when I get to my computer, good Lord willing. I am on my Galaxy 5 right now. I know, this is an older phone. Lullz.
The fact that Mr Cassidy says very clearly, that a person is FIRST "regenerated" which enables them to "repent and believe", shows that "regeneration" is a requirement BEFORE REPENTANCE. As the Bible teaches that a person cannot be BORN AGAIN (SAME as REGENERATION), until they repent, and according to Mr Cassidy, happens AFTER they are "regenerated", is very clear to me that they are BORN AGAIN TWICE. First to enable them to repent, Second, when they repent. If you agree with Mr Cassidy then you are as wrong as him!
Calvinism brings more confusion to Soteriology than any one else! Because MOST of it is NOT in the Holy Bible!
All sovereign grace believers understand that a these things happen simultaneously......We discuss each part separately.....but they happen all at once.
HOW can regeneration be FIRST then? Jesus Himself says, "repent and believe the Gospel", which shows that "repentance" must precede salvation. It is Biblical to say that a person is "regenerated" UPON "repentance", but NOT what Mr Cassidy says, that "regeneration ENABLES a person to repent", this is not in the Bible. I keep saying that "Regeneration" is the SAME as "born-again", and can ONLY come AFTER "repentance".
No. Not all sovereign grace believers believe that.
Before one can enter, or even see the kingdom of God, one must first be born from above (Ps 87; Gal 4:26; Jn 1:13; Jn 3).
Only the heavenly born are able to discern the kingdom of heaven.
Biblically, the heavenly birth (born from above, born of God, born of the Spirit) is NOT regeneration. We, corporate Christianity, ARE the regeneration. We ARE the 'building again of the house of David'. We ARE the 'restoring of all things'. Corporately, we have been regenerated, 'begotten again', through the gospel. Individually, we are born from above, apart from the gospel, and that can occur long before hearing and faith.
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No. Not all sovereign grace believers believe that.
Before one can enter, or even see the kingdom of God, one must first be born from above (Ps 87; Gal 4:26; Jn 1:13; Jn 3).
Only the heavenly born are able to discern the kingdom of heaven.
Biblically, the heavenly birth (born from above, born of God, born of the Spirit) is NOT regeneration. We, corporate Christianity, ARE the regeneration. We ARE the 'building again of the house of David'. We ARE the 'restoring of all things'. Corporately, we have been regenerated, 'begotten again', through the gospel. Individually, we are born from above, apart from the gospel, and that can occur long before hearing and faith.
Greetings! If you were to compare John 3:1-8 and Titus 3:4-6, you will see two different Greek and English words, that describe the SAME thing. Jesus says in John, "born from above", Paul says, "born again" (regeneration). So you are in error to say that being "born from above", is not "regeneration".
No, two different Gr words that do NOT describe the same thing.
I'm going shroomin. Be back later.
John 3, "ἄνωθεν", = "again, anew, means both born from above and born again" (W F Arndt and F W Gingrich, Greek-English lexicon, page,76)
Titus 3:5, "παλιγγενεσία", = "rebirth, regeneration, of the rebirth of a redeemed person" (page, 611)
No, I am not missing the point. The word 'world' does not mean everybody who has ever lived, but it does cover the world. Not everyone is His sheep. A Gideon recently spoke at church and said that in India alone, 1.3 BILLION ppl still haven't heard about the Christ. Those who die in their sins, how can the Spirit convict them? It is through the word of God the Spirit works to bring conviction to them.
Them rejecting the gospel does not condemn them, seeing thy are already condemned. If they reject it, it does not make them condemned...they are already condemned, and that makes them reject it. You are making the gospel a message of lostness and not hope. What I mean is if they are condemned by rejecting it, then if they do not hear the gospel, then they are not condemned.
Jesus told the religious leaders in Israel that the word had no place in them because they were not His sheep. Those who reject it until the day they die were not His to begin with.
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”[Romans 10:14-15]
Look at how Apostle Paul worded this. How can they call on the One in who they have not believed in? Answer is they can not.
How can they believe in the One of whom they have not heard? The answer is they can not.
How can they hear without someone preaching to them? The answer is they can not.
Then in verse 17 Paul said faith comes by hearing the message concerning Christ. Ppl can not be convicted of their sins outside hearing the message of the Christ.
Then in 1 Corinthians 10:21 Paul said it pleased God, through the foolishness of preaching, to save the believers.
All of it, from conviction to conversion, centers on the gospel.
Look at how Apostle Paul worded this. How can they call on the One in who they have not believed in? Answer is they can not.
How can they believe in the One of whom they have not heard? The answer is they can not.
How can they hear without someone preaching to them? The answer is they can not.
Then in verse 17 Paul said faith comes by hearing the message concerning Christ. Ppl can not be convicted of their sins outside hearing the message of the Christ.
Then in 1 Corinthians 10:21 Paul said it pleased God, through the foolishness of preaching, to save the believers.
All of it, from conviction to conversion, centers on the gospel.
Why do you seem to have to call people names? I'm stating my belief. Since God exists in a timeless realm and He can see from eternity past to eternity future at the same time, I can't see and argument that He doesn't have foreknowledge about everything that has, is, and will happen in our universe. Can you refute that statement? based on what? Putting God in your own little box? I'm simply saying that since He has foreknowledge how can we know whether He predestines everything to happen? I put that in the category of a mystery we won't understand until we see Him face to face. Yes, my native environment is the Kingdom of God on earth.
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