Under Grace or Under Law?

Agreed, and there is no mention of a believer not being able to commit certain sins anywhere in the Bible.

 

Your last statement "right way" is how a Christian walks if he has the mind of Christ. If he does the first things, where he shall not inherit the Kingdom, then he is not a Christian and probably never was.

19: Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20: Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21: Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Then, I take it you don't believe these are Christians and if so, then we agree. If you think they are Christians then we do not agree.

 

I did read your post #114, and do not agree with all you have concluded. We have to agree to disagree, then. Whatever this verse may say, it does not say that one can evaluate whether or not someone is or was saved, based on this. If eternal life equals salvation and is a free gift, then inheritance is something else. One cannot have any such thing as a "free gift" with qualifications. That simply is a contradiction of terms.

I agree.

Ed

 

Free Gift is not to peole who commit such acts according to the word of God. If they do so they never had the "free gift". I didn't say they couldn't go to Heaven, the Lord said it and what He says will stand when the world is on fire.

"no mention of a believer not being able to commit sins", Then what are the following scriptures telling us, go play folly?

What about this one, maybe you all have an answer besides He didn't mean "all the time" He just said that.

1Jo 3:9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

or this one:

1Jo 3:8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

or this one:

1Jo 5:18¶We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
or this:

1Pe 1:23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

I am not challenging the "free gift", I am challenging if they ever received it.

 

By your own interpretation of these verses, one sin would mean a person was never saved.

Was Peter saved twice, including again after he denied the Lord? Was Abraham saved more than once? First, when He believed God at the promise, and second at the offering of Isaac?

What about Noah? He got drunk, as I read Scripture, yet I find him in the "Hall of Fame of Faith" in Hebrews 11, along with outstanding 'testimonies' such as Rahab, the harlot; Samson; and David, the murderer, and who was at the same time, the 'man after God's own heart'?

Paul? He said he was the chief of sinners? Did that mean he was not 'yet' saved? Sorry, I don't think that interpretation is correct.

Ya' might wanna' check out some more Scriptures on some of the noteworthies, including the Biblical "Saint of saints", Lot - Hizzoner, the Mayor of Sodom, of whom the last record on this earth we have of his life, was that he fathered children in incest.

Or is Scripture wrong on all these, and none of them were ever "really and truly saved", a phrase that BTW, is never found anywhere in Scriture?

Ed

 

There is a sin and there is a sin unto death.

Was the Holy Ghost within any of those you mentioned? Why do think Christ came?

1Jo 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
(should I accept this as truth?)

Hbr 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (should I accept this as the truth?)

 

On that same basis one would have to challenge you if you have the truth in you, would they not?

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

Feel free to do so by all means but remember there is a sin and there is a sin unto death.

Also, to make sure. The one who is questioning me, believes I could die on top of my neighbors wife, and still go to Heaven and rejoice with the angels, is that right? Or have you changed your mind?

 

When you die, you have only two choices, you will die either a sinner or a sinner saved by grace. Sin is sin whether it be adultery or the lack of loving God with all of your heart, mind and soul which we all fail to do each and everyday :thumbsup:

God Bless!

 

I don't really understand what stance you are taking. Are you also saying I could be in the act of adultery when I die and go to Heaven and rejoice with the angels?

 

If you have been born of God.

God Bless!

 

God help us...........

 

steve,

How in the world can you call that being "Born again"? Havent you ever done a Bible study and looked up what that actually means?

 

1Jn:2:29: If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1Jn:5:4: For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1Jn:5:18: We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1Jn:3:9: Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jn:4:7: Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

 

Your relationship with God as a Christian is Father and child. God does not send His children to hell for being bad. However consequences will result from sin and physical death is possible as in your example.

God Bless!

 

So you take this to mean that you, Claudia, have never sinned since your conversion to Jesus?

God Bless!

 

Yeah, Peter and Paul, to name two were specifically in the "church age", hence were indwelt by the Holy Spirit. And I'll tack on Barnabas, as well. Paul, in Galatians accused Peter of hypocrisy, and said that Barnabas was caught up in Peter's hypocrisy. The way I read Scripture, that is two Apostles who were way off track, and one of them was in a secondary fashion. Were either of them saved? Yep! As I read Scripture, anyway. As to the OT saints, where does Scripture ever say that it was necessary for the Holy Spirit to be within one, hence "indwell" for one to be saved? Indwelling is something reserved to believers after the cross. What you or I have is far greater, in this regard, than anything David or Abraham ever had, or ever could have had.

But our salvation, even as theirs, is still based on, both then and now, faith, and faith apart from any works.

Ed

 

Amen! :thumbsup:

And as everyone can see, Peter sinned (hypocrisy) after he was born of God.

 

You equate that to:
19: Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20: Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21: Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

I didn’t say to be saved, I said to have the mind of Christ and be kept by the Power of God which is the Holy Ghost that dwells in you. You condone what David did. God didn't nor did he condone what Israel did for thats why He put her away and Jesus came to restore Israel on a better way.

According to the above there was no need for Christ to die at all for the first was plenty good enough. This is when they were worshipping Idol Gods, adultery, backsliding etc, so God put her away.

Hbr 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Why did Jesus come Ed; ?

God said you couldn't do those things and go to Heaven, you and others say they can. Which one do you think is right you or God. Oh, you say to join the church boys and then you can play the folly, get drunk, slap you mommie silly or do whatever you want. It will be alright for Jesus died for you and just because you happened to be on top of your neighbors wife when you saw the death angel coming, no need to worry, you have the blood of Christ. Yikes,

 

Bob, there are at least three partial references to Christ dying for our sins and shedding his blood in Rom. 4., specifically verses 7, 17, 24, and 25. And that is why Jesus came as can be found in John 3, as well.

I am curious as to why the subject of Adultery seems to come up so often in your posts, and wonder if it is somehow prevalent among your church area? It seems to get a lot of mention, at least. And I agree, that it is a very grevious sin. But I don't see it as defined Biblically as "the sin unto death", and challenge any to tell me exactly what is that sin.

Is there such a sin? Absolutely!

Are we told what it is? Not that I see, although I would try and stay away from any sin, as a believer. That way, one can be assured one does not commit a "sin unto death", which, BTW, is not said to be either the way for one to lose his or her salvation, nor is it ever said that it is 'proof' that one "never had it to begin with".

Ed