Where do you believe the role of "youth minister" is defined in the Bible? Is this role the same thing as a pastor?
Unmarried Youth Pastor, OK??
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by IFB Mole, May 14, 2007.
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That would be fine but the Bible does not say "one woman man" it says "husband of one wife".
I took it out, as this is not a thread about a bishop being blameless.
Perhaps you would be correct if God did not say "A bishop must be the husband of one wife."
He would've been the husband of one wife and would've demonstrated an ability to rule his household and have his children in subjection with all gravity and by that point he wouldn't be a novice so maybe...I know for sure he'd be far more qualified than a novice bachelor.
I did not say this nor imply it. There is a long list of requirements of a bishop. If he fails in one he fails to qualify for they are "must" conditions. A pastor who commits adultery certainly fails in being blameless, covetousness, being of good report and perhaps other things.
Why do I need to hit the point of what "one woman man" means? How about we just stick to the Holy Bible?
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Scarlett O. ModeratorModerator
I don't believe that "must be the husband of one wife" means that marriage is a prerequisite, but I do think pastors are better off if they are married.
Not because single people aren't capable because we are, but it's very hard being single and having multiple responsibilities in one's life. Trust me on that one. Going it alone is hard when in various places of leadership.
A pastor who shepherds a church bears a great burden of responsibility. That list of qualifications found in 1 Timothy is pretty tough to follow if he doesn't have a wife to help him. I'm not speaking of her washing his clothes and cooking his meals and doing all of the grunt work, that's another thread altogether...
I think a pastor needs a wife.
The book of Genesis says that that only thing that God saw in all of His Creative Genius was that his first created human being was alone.
Go back and take a really, REALLY good look at those qualifications of a church leader. That's a tough standard to measure up to and I say this in all respect....do most of our church leaders genuinely measure up to the literal letter of that list...100%?
I don't see how a man could be a pastor of a church and strive to meet the biblical qualifications of that list and not have a strong, humble, and gifted wife to give him constructive criticism, pray for him, soothe his spirit when he is down, stand beside him like a lioness when the church doesn't support him, help him in research and teaching preparations, listen to his private struggles and fears and calm them, be an example of patience, blamelessness, good behavior, hospitality, leader of the children, and so on.
In fact, verse 11 says that their wives must be just as diligent in that list of qualifications.
I don't know how a man could be a pastor who meets the qualifications of 1 Timothy without a competent, wise, and resourceful wife who loves him so.
Nonetheless, I just don't see where this passage is stating that a pastor HAS to have a wife.
There is an underlying tone of "assumption" that the majority of people DO get married. Just as God told the Israelites before they crossed over into Jordan for their future kings not to multiply their wives unto themselves, I think that same principle is what is being asserted here. An assumption that in the case of marriage because that is what the majority of Christian adults do.
"bone of my bones, flesh of my flesh"...."a man (singular) shall cleave unto his wife (singular) and they shall be one flesh"
You can't have that Godly state of mind when "married to" more than one woman.
A wife is VERY important to a man....the book of Genesis said so. And a pastor's burden of responsibility is VERY heavy....the book of 1 Timothy said so.
And while it doesn't mean that he has to have a wife.....I don't see how he is as effective as a pastor as he could be without one.
On the other hand, and because a Godly and gifted wife is so important, I would much rather see a young single pastor preaching the word and shepherding a church for a while alone and single, waiting for God's choice of a wife for him than to see a young single pastor feel pressured into getting married to albeit a very nice woman, but not God's choice for him just for the sake of appeasing a congregation.
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If not a prerequisite...what is it? If your boss says "you must go to work today"...is that optional? -
1Ti 3:5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?
This is the reason God requires an elder (Sr. elder, youth elder, etc.) to be married, plain and simple! There is no way around it, and the reason for it is plain. Being a man who "dates one woman at a time" does not prepare him for tending the flock....but a man who can manage his home does! Why is this so hard to understand? I'm thinking we are letting the way we have always done things in our church and denomination outweigh Scripture here. -
Scarlett O. ModeratorModeratorWell, webdog, there are nine pages of this debate and I have entered the discussion rather late, so I don't know if what I have to say will mean anything to you or anyone else.
But, you did ask...
To me, "husband of one wife" mean he is to be married and faithful to only one woman. The emphasis is on the fidelity, which represents spiritual fidelity.
If a pastor is married, he is to be faithful to one woman. If he is not married, then he is to be a virgin, just like a woman.
God told the Israelites when giving them all those rules over and over and over ad nausem about sexual purity and fidelity that there was a reason for all of those endless and tedious laws about sexual purity.
Leviticus 18:24 - "Do not defile yourselves in any way of these ways, BECAUSE this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. Even the land was defiled."
God also told Aaron (Leviticus 10:8-11) that when Aaron's sons were destroyed because they offered the altar fire in the incorrect manner that the priests "MUST distinguish between the holy and the common, the clean and the unclean."
We, as christians, are sanctified or set apart from the world. And our pastors are set apart even further than lay people.
In this list of qualifications, God is insisting not upon marriage itself, but upon marital fidelity when married......marital fidelity which is a representation of spiritual fidelity.
Now about that post on being able to manage his household.
You don't have to be married to know how to manage a household and set boundaries and make decisions and lead people. And just because you are married doesn't automatically make you a management genius.
My pastor, whom I love, cannot and never could manage his household. Both his son and daughter were sexually active before marriage. And his son is divorced and has had several "relationships". His daugher seems to have settled down.
Our chairman of the deacons has a very, very dysfunctional family and sadly to say, it is mostly his fault for being too harsh and cruelly critical of everyone from his wife to his grandchildren.
Marriage gives one experience in managing a household, but does not necessarily make one an expert in it.
There are indeed single Christians, including single pastors with the gift of organization, management, and leadership.
As I said earlier, I believe that church leaders greatly need a wife, but the passage in 1 Timothy is referring to fidelity, not prerequisite relationships. -
I guess this is what I don't get. The text states an elder must be able to manage his household well...not "a" household. I realize a single man can be a great leader who makes proper decisions in leading people...I was a manager prior to becoming married...but the corrolation between a man being the spiritual leader of his home...and a man being the spriritual leader of a congregation is undeniable. God wants a man in charge of His "family" with experience managing their own family. It also serves as an outward sign for those choosing elders, and eliminates the need to sort through the managerial styles of single men. I believe this is why the requirement is given, and makes the "one woman kind of man" argument lame. -
1 Timothy 3:10
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
One wonders how you would prove a single man to be able to rule his own household well. They must have a test at seminary or something. -
Sometimes men can lead a congregation better than his own family because his family knows him better and who he really is. The basis and foundation for public leadership should start at the private level first. If the message his family sends is contradictory to his words to others then his message will not be believed. His example wil be poor and give opportunity for the world to discredit him.
I served in a church where some of the deacons were not credible in the eyes of those in the community. They did not like it when I asked them about it. Eventuallly they asked mne to leave. Those deacons are still there except two. One resigned and another committed suicide. The church is on a slow decline primarily because of their credibility. -
How do you think a godly lady would know about his leadership qualities?
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This is why, IMO, that God gave the requirement for a man being able to manage his family. With a single man, you don't get this benefit, as there is no accountability.
Notice, too, how the other requirements are a lot easier to break as a single man. -
Sure you do. Before I got out of college I had formed a team of about 65 men which I started from scratch. Almost everyone of those men were not Christians when I met them. I prayed for those men and helped them to grow and lead others. I am still doing the same thing today.
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I suppose she could wait and see how he runs his church... but I don't see where she is commanded to prove him first.
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Paul was a traveling missionary, not a pastor. He did not have oversight of a particular part of the flock of God.
These missionaries were sent from the church. They were not ones who would fall under the qualifications for a church bishop. -
Well, in our church, youth ministers are full pastors (ordained) who lead the youth ministries. They do much of what any other pastor does - but their field of responsibility is the youth. They teach, organize, disciple, counsel, etc. with the youth - we have one youth pastor now for jr. high and the other for senior high - although they work together much of the time. They're both great with the kids and we're really blessed to have them!
Where in the Bible is youth minister defined? The same place where pastor is defined. In our church, the pastors each have different areas of responsibility which are not directly defined by Scripture as individual "positions" but each person's responsibilities are fully within the realm of pastoral roles. -
A godly lady would not knowingly marry someone who cannot adequately lead. He could easily distinguish his leadership by the disciples he is making. No disciples means no example of leadership. If there are no disciples that means he either he has no leadership qualities or not mature enough.
If Jesus had no leadership qualities he would have not spread the gospel.
The problem in America is that we do not hold the congregation and pastor to the standard of proven leadrship as Jesus did. Jesus sent out His disciples two by two. He showeed them how to do ministry. He told and showed them how to make disciples. The modern church today has watered down that responsibility and relegated it to a program rather than personal relationships and personal relationships. If every man and woman in the church were about making disciples it is highly unlikely that church needs would go unmet and it would serve as an example to eaqch person of what servant leaderrship loks like. The older women would be teaching the younger women. The older men would be teaching the younger men how to lead and love. -
UnMarried Youth Pastor
So the minister (Youth or otherwise) that is not married does not have a household? So he cannot keep his bills paid and house clean and food prepared if he is single? Just because he is single he is not able to manage other types and styles of relationships? WOW, proof-texting really does make smart people look less intelligent. That verse in no way provides ANY proof that a minister must be single or married. The argument does not hold any water. -
Household is a family...plain and simple. You think Paul was talking about the mortgage, utilities and building maintenance when he stated these requirements? He was looking out for the spiritual well being of the church...not a bunch of physical things. To argue that a single man is a "family" and his "household" consists of grocery shopping and a clean house REALLY makes you look...how did you say it..."less intelligent".
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No, actually it says "one woman man." Get out your Greek NT and read it. Don't make it up on the fly.
You should not feel so free to dispense with God's word. This thread is about being blameless. The qualification for pastor is "blameless." Everything in the list are examples of what it means to be blameless. These are not separate characteristics, but representative characteristics of blameless men.
I am correct since God did not say that. Read it.
But the text doesn't says "He must have been the husband ..." It says "He must be." It is a present tense, not a past tense. Again, more emphasis on what the Bible actually says would help you.
No he doesn't, not if no one knows about it.
"One woman man" is what the Holy Bible says. Again, look it up. -
Nowhere in the English Holy Bible does it say "one woman man". There's not much more to dialogue about on this one, as it is apparent we are not reading from the same book.
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