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Featured Unqualified???

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, Nov 13, 2022.

  1. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    In another thread it was stated:
    Interesting comments - So three issues
    1) If you have no qualified men to be an elder or deacon - do you:
    leave the position empty or put in unqualified men?

    2) If qualified men will not deal with the pastor as needed -
    (assuming it is an elder led church) how do you replace such elders and/or pastors

    3) If you are not an elder (in an elder led church) what responsibilities do you have to
    insist on changes.
     
  2. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    1. The positions are filled.
    2. By the Bilaws, he could be voted out by a simple majority vote at a regular or called business meeting. The Church is only 4 years old. He hasva kind of cult following among the new converts that would make that hard. They don't know that he is as lost on doctrines and hermeneutics as a goose in a hail storm. I don't have a desire to vote him out. I just let him do his thing and I do mine. We are good friends away from church, but at church we agree that we are going to disagree on about everything. He can't baffle me with his bull crap, so he gave up trying.
    I have no desire to change him and he will not change me.
    3.I have dealt with church splits and pastor firings so many times, that I am taking a break from such for a while.
     
  3. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    That is a huge question

    what does a church do when no one is qualified?

    does it fold up?
     
  4. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    We haven't - because they do not want to.

    and Reynolds - you answered the way it is in your church
    what I was trying to get at - is what would be the best direction for a church to consider - when faced with those situation
     
  5. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Idk

    maybe ask another church to provide a pastor?
     
  6. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Or Bible Teacher
     
  7. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    You have to grow. Whether C or A, if you have basically no people, you have to grow.

    The solution for a church like I am in is slow and subtle teaching of sound doctrine. I do teach a bit. It is always so concrete that even though it rules the pastor a bit, he does not dare counter it.
     
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  8. unprofitable

    unprofitable Active Member

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    A friend of mine faced a similar problem. He was a member at a Baptist church that was Armenian in nature. After hearing a sovereign grace doctrine, he as an associate pastor, preached a sermon about his new understanding. The pastor who was prominent in some Baptist circles, condemn his message openly before the church.

    The associate pastor confided in pastor at another church and asked him if should leave the church because of the confrontation. His pastor friend advised him to stay and continue to preach what he saw until the church either accepted his preaching or excluded him. They excluded him and one of the members at the closing of the meeting told him, "I agree with what you are teaching but I am too old to change." You cannot control the outcome of what you teach, but the Lord can.
    The associate preacher was called to preach at another church where he has been pastor for several decades.

    As a member of the body of Christ which you attend, it is your problem. Your approach to continue to preach and stand for sound doctrine is a mandate given to the church and its members in the edifying of the body of Christ.

    I hope this is of some help.
     
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  9. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Gentlemen - YOU ARE GOING OFF TOPIC! - THIS IS NOT A C-A discussion
    it is not about Growth

    The basic OP is how do you handle a situation if you have no qualified men to be elders or deacons - do you put unqualified men in????
     
  10. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    1. Leave it empty. There are retired preachers/pastors in every state as well as lay workers. I helped a number of churches for 30+ years in small communities and this is workable. Even in our own church, we had 3 elders, all volunteer, all bi-vocational

    2. We would deal with it as elders, probably have an all-church meeting if the elders alone could not work thru the problem

    3. No one in any church can "insist" on change. With any member or an officer (deacon, elder) it is no different.
     
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  11. Jec81

    Jec81 Member

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    I was in this boat once as an associate pastor of a church.
    1. If no one qualified to do a job then it just doesn't get done.
    2. It sounds like a pastor lead church so change will have to be gradual.
    3. As ap of education and outreach, my insistence on change and as rebuffed.

    I stayed to fight the fight until a similar position came open in another town, then God moved me there (funny story actually), the last time on staff at said church I tried to have a deep theological conversation with said pastor and he could not even keep up, the next day I left for the other position.
     
  12. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Church growth theory today unfortunately revolves around C vs A. The pragmatic A's and the sovereign C's. My point was that no matter which umbrella of church growth theory you fall under, it can be agreed that your church MUST grow.
     
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    What do you mean by "qualified" (i.e., what is the disqualification and can the unqualified become qualified)?
     
  14. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Then start another thread - - and we are not talking about growth either - PLEASE STAY ON SUBJECT.
     
  15. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Good question!
    1) I would say first of all - their spiritual life
    2) possibly there interaction with others.
    3) policy of the church - ie some say no single men, no divorce, ect
    4) any other items.

    possible consideration
    lets say that a many is in a deep financial situation
    his secular job keeps him out of church at least 2 Sundays a month

    what other reasons have you actually seen?

    Or are we too quick just to fill a position.
     
  16. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Salty, you ask questions and then complain about the answers. You asked about not having qualified leadership. The reason you don't have any is that you don't have any people. To solve your problem, you must grow.
    My response was on topic.
    You posting threads like they going out of style in an attempt to generate traffic, then you complain about all the answers being off topic, when they are not at all off topic.

    To have leaders, you need people. If you don't have any people, you don't have any leaders. You need leaders,.....GROW!
     
  17. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Another reason is you don't have any people. A person has to be there to be qualified.
     
  18. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    That is true but NOT one of the three questions this thread asked. Think Salty wants answers to HIS questions, not your hobby horse answers.

    1. Would you put in unqualified men in office
    2. What if elder is not fulfilling his ministry
    3. What would you do to insist on change

    Growth is NOT the answer to any of these, though it is a great question. Take admonition to make your OWN thread, please.
     
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  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Those are the qualifications I have seen as well.

    When it comes to the first two, I think the church can develop that in its members. The 3rd can be a barrier.
     
  20. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Salty started this thread by quoting me. The thread started on my Orig content, but ok, I am off topic if you say so.
    I did directly answer his questions in post 2.
     
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