We do not have to be careful about saying it if that is our own experience. What we have to be careful about is saying the doctrine or teaching is true BECAUSE of our experience! If the doctrine is true there is nothing wrong with confirming it by experience. If the doctrine is false there is no experience that can validate it. The bottom line is the Scripture and experiences can be brought in as complimentary but not as evidence for the truth of it.
Was Adam Elected to Salvation or Damnation?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Heavenly Pilgrim, Aug 10, 2010.
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Originally Posted by Heavenly Pilgrim
To be or not to be, that is the question.
For all those like DW believing in unconditional election, here is the question. Was Adam elected to salvation or damnation?
Is there a doctor in the house?
HP: Absolutely, but certainly in accordance to the conditions God has set forth to receive salvation. Election, as it relates to salvation, is indeed conditional.
HP: Certainly God is calling according to the conditions of salvation such as repentance and faith. Our purpose is to bear fruit and to live and walk holy before Him as salt and light in this ungodly world. Certainly that thought could be expanded. -
Quote:
Percho: Is one elected to salvation or elected to rule and serve with Christ in the kingdom of God?
HP: I should have said, both, but neither apart from the stated conditions.
If that does not answer your question, just ask it again in possibly a different manner. I will try and give it another shot. -
Here's one question for everyone: how will you get to heaven?
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In like manner, though God has always purposed to save His elect, that doesn't mean they were always saved in an actual sense. -
HP: Because there may be some limited connections that can be rightfully drawn between salvation and the deliverance from the bondage of Egypt, one can not simply extrapolate that because one may not have had conditions the other cannot either, or that since both were forms of deliverance the conditions for deliverance was the same in both cases.
I can tell you one thing upon th eauthority of the Word of God, if man fails to repent. exercise faith in God, and continue faithful until the end, they will not be found in Christ in the last day. The same cannot be said for deliverance from the bondage of Egypt. -
To what extent must a child of God exercise faith in God? To what extent must a child of God "continue faithful until the end?" Please give me scripture.
Also, please answer the question I asked: how will you get to heaven? -
HP: Not so. Scripture has set forth clear conditions to be saved, without which none will be saved.
HP: To the extent God accepts it as faith and the Holy Spirit testifies to ones heart they are a child of God.
1Jo 3:19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 ¶ For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
HP: I have not taken that ride yet, so you will have to ask me after I arrive. I would surmise in a vertical fashion hopefully in the arms of an angel. :thumbs::godisgood: -
If you declare with your mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believe in you heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As scripture says, "Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame." -
Jedi Knight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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JK, the truth is that many cults might give the same answer as well as many that in the end will find themselves deceived. How might you test the truth to see if in fact your interpretation of Scripture might be in accordance with truth? The shoe cobbler might say he is the best shoe cobbler in town, but does that make it so? You might say you have the true interpretation of a text and all others are deceived, but does that make it so?
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Jedi Knight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
That's because Satan will always try to counterfeit experiencing God BUT that does not invalidate God revealing truth to his own. -
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HP: But then you have just blown away your argument of unconditional election. If I am reading you correctly, you must be a sinner to be elected to salvation, correct? Remember, you said "a PREVIOUS lost condition."
That would make being a sinner the condition of election, therefore if God is going to save Adam and Eve as He elected, God would also have to elect their sinful state as well, PRIOR to electing them to salvation, seeing they had at the time of election neither done evil or good according to your stated and implied view of election.
Are you still certain you want to stay with your stated position??????? -
Jedi Knight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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HP: And some say they have faith without works as well. What evidence supports the notion that you are saved and not simply deceived? I am NOT suggesting that you are deceived. I am just trying to get you to see that even a member of a cult could say that the Holy Spirit bears them witness. Morman’s do it all the time. Does their testimony guarantee their salvation? Again, I am NOT trying in any manner to compare you to a cult either. I am trying to get you to see that there must be other evidence that one is saved besides the things you say if one is going to examine themselves to see if they are of the faith. Scripture tells us to do that does it not? -
The only "condition" for election is faith in Christ.
Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
All those who place their faith in Christ become "in Him". God decreed before the foundation of the world that all those who placed their faith in Christ would be elected to be saved.
No, Adam did not know Christ. OT saints who believed God received imputed righteousness from God and went to Abraham's bosom (paradise) to await the atonement of Christ. -
"When my child was born was he (I saw the ultrasound) elected to be part of my family? Would he have my last name?" Because I knew before the child was born that he would make his entrance into this world in a certain specific month and year, with a specific name already chosen before the total formation of its body, was he therefore elected to my family?
That is how much sense your question concerning Adam makes.
God created Adam. Adam was God's child. He was always God's child. He always had salvation. He could never lose what he always had. His sin separated him from his fellowship with God. But God did not disown him from being his child. He never had to be "saved." He always was God's child. God created Him. There is no question about that. -
Jedi Knight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Jedi Knight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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