I want everyone to carefully read this above quote from HP.....
Read it closely......
Does anyone see the oxymoron in it?
However.....
HP believes and thinks his standing is certain because......
...and by doing this HP believes and thinks that he will not be found deceived. But according to his philosophy the very thing he believes and thinks about his own salvation is uncertain for he could be one of those deceived that he speaks of.
Conclusion, which is eactly what satan wants, is for those to believe as HP stated here and live as one who cannot be 100% sure God will accept them according to their deeds and works of the law. The blood of Christ might not work for you. It is not of grace but of YOU.
The sad result of not understanding faith alone and eternal life through regeneration.
DHK, you have been reading too many St Peter jokes.:)
Seriously, hypothetical questions seldom elicit well reasoned answers, and that for good reason. God will not judge anyone based on their reasons, but rather on whether or not they have remained obedient to the faith. He knows us better than we know ourselves. This I know, it will not be the one that has the best reasons, but rather, who has clean hands and a pure heart.
Ps 24:3 ¶ Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place? 4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully. 5 He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.
HP: If you think that my hope is not in the blood of Jesus Christ you are deceived. That by no means negates the obligation, commanded by God, for me to repent, exercise faith, and continue to the end in obedience, without which I am but harboring a deceived notion as to my final standing before Him.
Not what Jesus taught.....They will by no means follow a stranger,if fact they will run away because they do not recognise a strangers voice. This contradicts your belief.
You have answered wrong, and according to the Scriptures a person would not be able to enter into heaven based on that answer.
Furthermore, it was a serious question, albeit hypothetical, and had nothing to do with jokes. To take lightly one's salvation is not a joking matter. Do you think that eternity is a joking matter? Seriously?
I find it very interesting that you insist that you're not counting on saved by your obedience to the law, and then cite a verse that says that those who are obedient to the law will be saved.
HP: I have personally witnessed the confusion OSAS breeds first hand. I am sure that anyone that has been around OSAS preaching very long has witnessed the following testimony. Have you ever heard a testimony by one in long good standing with an assembly testify after a hard hitting message to repentance that goes something like this: “ I have been a Sunday School teacher for almost twenty years, and discovered today I was not saved.”
Now the real problem is that they have once had a clear testimony of salvation but have came under condemnation for one reason or another. There is no way they can testify in such groups that they have backslid and were on their way to hell, so the only thing they can testify is that they have never been saved.
What are they to do next time they fall into sin again and know full well within their soul that they are not right with God??
What confusion OSAS breeds among the people of God. I say there is no security in eternal security unless it is coupled with a conscience void of offense. The only true security is the peace of God that only comes when the conscience is clear before God and man. Eternal security is but deceiving suave over the blinded eyes of any whose conscience is not void of offense between God and between man. Faith always is coupled with a clear conscience if it is a faith that saves.
In the OP - HP mentiones the Matt 18 story Christ tells about "full forgiveness" being revoked.
And the OSAS group responds by ducking,dancing,and-dodging around the text in a way that never actually quotes it and shows their OSAS tradition to survive the text.
Surely someone in the OSAS group can actually deal with the texts listed in the OP. Anyone? Or is the solution "supposed to be" - to just tell HP he has lost his salvation if he dares to bring up the points raised in those texts?
So easy to judge, and to condemn. You are judge, jury and executioner all at once.
First, the person may be one who did not for some reason understand correctly the gospel.
Second, the person may never have been convicted of the Holy Spirit. It may simply have been a profession of the mind.
Third, the person may have simply gone through the motions because someone else wanted them to do it--social pressure. Many children and teens are like this. It is the Word + the Holy Spirit that is needed in order to be saved, not just going through the motions.
Falling into sin never caused anyone to lose their salvation in the first place. You are deceived. It seems that you lack understanding in the doctrine of soteriology.
The Bible doesn't teach that. The Bible teaches that salvation is all of God. We are kept by HIS power, not our own. To think that we can keep salvation by OUR power is ludicrous. It is Christ that saves; not we that save ourselves by our works.
Where does peace come from?
"Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God.
Peace comes from being justified by faith and faith alone.
Is your conscience always void of offense between yourself and others.
Every time you make a false accusation on this board, like calling either Steaver of me a Calvinist, you do not have a conscience void of offense, for you have just lied.
It is the kettle calling pot black.
Take care of your own backyard first.
Salvation is all of God. It is by grace alone; by faith alone; in Christ alone.
It's a straw man argument! The Bible is clear that there are tares and there is wheat. And God is able to give assurance to His own and not be confused of being decieved.
Still - having someone "Actually" address the texts that HP raised in the OP - ending with the special focus on Matt 18 and "Forgiveness revoked", Matt 5:29-30, Matt 6:15, Matt 18:would be a bit more compelling by way of a substantive response to the subject itself.