I have provided the Scripture several times, cowboymatt.
Job clearly states that nothing clean is born to a woman. What do you take that to mean? It is more that figure of speech or imagery.
Was Mary a Biological Mother or a Surrogate Mother for Jesus?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Eliyahu, Jan 21, 2008.
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Secondly, the point of both passages is that humans are not righteous or pure. What makes humans unrighteous and impure? Sin, i.e., disobedience. Not flesh, being human, sinful nature, sex, nor genetics. Want proof? 1 Peter 3.18a "For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous..." So what makes someone unrighteous? Not flesh, being human, sinful nature, sex, nor genetic. Nope; committing sins make one unrighteous!
So the verse from Job aren't good enough to prove the idea of damnable sin being passed down through genetics! -
Psalms 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
If you and DHK were rightly dividing the Word of Truth, you would see nothing born of a woman is clean, they are all stained with sin as soon as they are born.
Christ could not be born of a woman's egg or He too would be numbered with the unrighteous. -
Romans 8:8-14 (KJV)
8: So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9: But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10: And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11: But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12: Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13: For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. -
I reckon they think some men on this earth are born righteous and not in need of Salvation. If that were the case, Christ would not have had to die.
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And you actually twist this Scripture to include Christ?
Don't you think that is a tad blasphemous? -
Nowhere in that statement did I say Christ was unrighteous. Nowhere.
I said if men were born righteous, Christ would not have had to die.
As I said before, if you cannot say something nice about me, don't talk about me at all.
You accusing me of blasphemy is really sad. -
If we weren't born from the corruptible seed then Jesus wouldn't have had to be our sacrifice. We are born with sin nature and that has been passed down from Adam and Eve.
John 3:5-7 (KJV)
5: Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6: That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7: Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
We are all born from the corrupted seed. -
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Romans 3.10 does not dispute what I have claimed all along, that everyone sins. I am just not willing to read my theological heritage onto the Bible. Romans 3.10 does not say that sin is passed down genetically. -
And since when did sin nature = sin? -
First you quote Romans 3:10. Look further down at the context. What about Romans 3:23ff, which we are all so familiar with:
Romans 3:23-25 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Are you saying that Christ is included in the "all" here that have sinned; that Christ is a sinner, just because he was born of Mary? Again, it is blasphemous.
But what did Christ do, and why was this statement made?
The subject of this passage is back in verse 22: "All who believe" are justified through the redemption that is in Jesus Christ. All have sinned (except Christ). But all who have believed in the sinless Christ, who has provided their redemption he has freely justified. He could not do that unless he was perfect man and perfect God at one and the same time. He could not be perfect man, unless he was the perfect man who could relate to all of man's griefs, sorrows, temptations, trials, etc., including all the ones starting from the fertilization of the egg onward. If not, where would humanity start? Humanity starts at conception. That is when he became the perfect man--when he was conceived as one.
Then, after paying the price for our sins, with his blood. He took that blood and paid the penalty for our sins. Thus the verse says: God has "set him forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood."
Propitiation means satisfaction. The demands of God were legally satisfied by the payment of the blood of Christ, blood that was shed at the cross. That blood could only be shed because Christ was the perfect, sinless Son of Man. He could only have that perfect humanity if he had been born of Mary; the fertilized egg of Mary--inheriting a complete and full humanity from her. He was "conceived" by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary.
All that believe in him are justified, for God has made Him to be a propitiation through faith in his blood.
To deny his complete humanity is wrong.
To deny his complete deity is wrong.
To deny that he was completely human and God at one and the same time is wrong, for he was both. He was the God-man. -
The 1 Peter passage is clearly talking about being born again, not being born the first time. Again, this passage does not talk about damnable sin being passed down genetically. -
To say He was born sharing Mary's sinful flesh is wrong.
Mary's egg would have contributed to His flesh, making Him a sinner just like every man woman and child who has ever been born into this world. -
Its 3.30 AM Eastern time - do you people ever sleep over there ;)?
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1. Rom.3:10 As it is written there is none righteous, no not one.
2. Christ could not be born of a woman's egg or he too would be numbered with the unrighteous.
It is this last statement that is blasphemous, and you connect it with Romans 3:10 taking Scripture out of context again. For Christ was born of Mary's seed according to Isa.7:14 and Mat.1:20 which you refuse to believe.
I therefore point that out to you and you come back and say:
I have explained it in more detail in yet another post. Your taking Scripture out of its context is doing you more harm than good. -
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LOL, Roger.
What's sleep?
Will be sleeping in another hour or two
Seldom get to sleep before 5 -
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