OOh!! That would be great!! I know that you lean towards the TR/MT, if I'm not mistaken and so from your "prejudice", it will mean more to a KJVO, IMO. LOL
What are the true differences between the KJV and other versions?
Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by annsni, Sep 4, 2013.
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
There are 404 Greek words in the TR. There are only 5 differences in the Greek texts where meaning is affected, and most of those are only slight differences. The main difference is that the modern Greek text omits the prepositional phrase "in Ephesus" in v. 1.
To give an idea of the differences that do not affect meaning, two of those are what are called the "moveable nu," in which the letter nu is added to the end of a word, changing neither the grammar or the meaning.
So, the differences in Ephesians 1 between the TR and the modern Greek text amount to 5/404, or a 1.2% difference.
Caveat: The Greek text of Ephesians is fairly stable, as is also most of the NT; there would be more differences in the Greek texts of Acts and Revelation than we found in Eph.
(And yes, I'm prejudiced against the UBS Greek NT. :D) -
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
My son's mentor for the Ph. D. was Dr. David Alan Black, who I am privileged to have gotten to know. He has worked on a couple of the MVs, and we would disagree on the Greek text (though he supports the longer ending of Mark) and we differ somewhat on translation method. However, I've been impressed with his love for the Lord and the Word, and his work in worldwide missions. He considers himself a missionary first and a Greek teacher second.
One strong KJVO advocate who studied under him, Jesse M. Boyd, wrote about Dr. Black, "No biblical scholar that I have had contact with has exhibited such humility and selfsacrificing devotion toward his students" (http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/1john57-exegesis.htm). So, KJVO brethren who depend on ad hominem attacks in their defense of the KJV do not have any sympathy or agreement from me. -
John - I just compared the versions at Ephesians 1:1 and the KJV says "at Ephesus" and the modern versions say "in Ephesus". So do the modern versions follow the TR in this case?
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In fact, Scrivener's TR is not exactly the same as the TR used in 1611; and MVs have followed various different critical texts other than UBS3. Additionally, most translations do not slavishly follow just one particular text. So, isn't true that just because your comparison has a 1.2% difference does not mean that this is the actual difference between any MV and the KJV? Taking into consideration differences in translational methodology and theological bias, indeed, English-to-English is likely to be much, much higher than 1.2%. -
The reason given for this particular variant is that the letter was to be copied for multiple congregations with each subsequent copy having a different city named in that place of the text. Thus there are several manuscripts where "at Ephesus" was effectively left blank (intended to be filled in later). So, many translations it seems choose to include the traditional city name of the book we have come to know as Ephesians, even though they may not think that the actual words "at Ephesus" was in Paul's first manuscript. The decision here to include "at Ephesus" in an MV therefore has almost nothing to do with any weight of TR evidence.
Forgive me, I know I'm not John but I like to answer questions. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Secondly, it may be that the UBS4 Greek NT has the phrase while my UBS 3 does not. The editing process continues.
Thirdly, often translators do their own textual criticism, so chances are the translators of the modern versions you checked did so and thus disagreed with UBS. I have several modern versions at the church which I can't check, but the NIV I have here includes the phrase, but has a footnote saying "some early manuscripts" do not have it. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Can I just say that you guys rock? Thanks!
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truth is that either the CT/MT would have a closer claim to being copies of the originals to the best extent...
And truth also is that the TR/MT/CTall agree around 95 % of the timeany ways, and NO najor doctrines affect where they disagree!
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