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Featured What are your views on various doctrines?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by banana, Mar 16, 2017.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God Himself elects us unto eternal life, and he provides the need faith and Grace to accomplish that task towards us!
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    God credits our faith as righteousness or not. Romans 4:4-5/24.

    Instilled faith is a myth.
     
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  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Our faith does not save us, but the One whom faith in placed in does!
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yes, we place our faith in God and His Christ, and if God credits that faith as righteousness, God alone puts us in Christ who saves us forever.
     
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  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    That saving faith itself was the gift of to us from God, so really he gets the credit!
     
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  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another assertion of fake theology. If the faith was instilled, God would have no need to credit it (or not) as righteousness.
    God alone puts us in Christ, the sanctification (setting apart) by the Holy Spirit based on crediting our faith in the truth. Biblical doctrines are not based on what scripture does not say, but on what scripture actually says.
     
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  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    What offerings? That system (Old Covenant sacrifices) has been replaced with the once for all sacrifice of Christ.
     
  8. anerlogios

    anerlogios Member
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    That is an interesting question.
     
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  9. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    '"I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying, "I have dreamed, I have dreamed!" How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart, who try to make My people forget My name by their dreams which everyone tells his neighbour, as their fathers forgot My name for Baal. The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream; and he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat," says the LORD. "Is not My word like a fire?" Says the LORD, "And like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?"' (Jeremiah 23:25-29. Read the whole chapter).
    That worked well for David, didn't it? :Rolleyes
     
  10. Jope

    Jope Member
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    If Jeremiah is saying that all dream interpretation is false, why does Matthew record Joseph's dream?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    There was no interpretation needed for Joseph's dream. It was a straightforward command from God.
     
  12. Jope

    Jope Member
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    You're claiming that dreams, from Jeremiah onwards, are false. Hey, even your own quotation condemns your view. Jeremiah doesn't disapprove of dreams like you do:

    The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream; and he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully (verse 28).

    You, not I, need to read the whole chapter, let alone the very quotation you referenced.
     
  13. Jope

    Jope Member
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    Your point?
     
  14. The Parson

    The Parson Member
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    And that would be faith in God's Grace now wouldn't it?
    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
     
  15. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Unsure of what this means. Can you (or someone) elaborate?
     
  16. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    How do you make that out? And what is a 'false dream'?
    Just read the whole chapter. :)
     
  17. Jope

    Jope Member
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    When asked what I put alongside, or ahead of scripture, I said dream interpretation. You quoted Jeremiah's passage that condemns and also condones dreams and dream interpretation. And to further prove what your view actually was (since you just simply quoted without stating whether you condemned or condoned dreams and dream interpretation), you claimed that dream interpretation is condemned in your Joseph and Matthew comment.


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    #117 Jope, Mar 28, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
  18. Jope

    Jope Member
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    I don't think such a thing exists. False dream interpretation, however, does exist.
     
  19. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    First, I am not against dreams. How could anyone be so? They happen. As a matter of fact, God seems to be speaking to many Moslems about the Lord Jesus Christ in dreams. But these Moslems are then coming to Christians to find out about Christ from the Bible.

    What I am against, and what God is against, is people placing dreams on anything like the same level as Scripture, claiming to have received an authoritative word from God in a dream, or trying to bind people's consciences by anything other than Scripture.

    Your interpretation of Jeremiah 21:28 is typically appalling. You ignore the context of verses 25-32. God clearly says that the dreams that these false prophets are telling are the 'deceits of their own heart.' "So let these prophets carry on with their nonsense," says God. But "He who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully." The dream is the chaff, and the word is the wheat, and those who push dreams upon people, "Cause My people to err by their lies and by their recklessness. Yet I did not send of command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all" (v.32).
     
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  20. Jope

    Jope Member
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    Jung and Freud figured out that dreams can be turned into a science. A person who dreams of a brick house, for example means something specific, no matter what person is dreaming of a brick house. Symbols mean the same thing regardless of who is dreaming of the symbol. "But if the analyst who is confronted by this dream material uses Freud's original technique of 'free association,' he finds that dreams can eventually be reduced to certain basic patterns" (Carl Jung, Man and His Symbols, p. 26).

    "Freud made the simple but penetrating observation that if a dreamer is encouraged to go on talking about his dream images and the thoughts that these prompt in his mind, he will give himself away and reveal the unconscious back-ground of his ailments, in both what he says and what he deliberately omits saying. His ideas may seem irrational and irrelevant, but after a time it becomes relatively easy to see what it is that he is trying to avoid, what unpleasant thought or experience he is suppressing..." (ibid., p. 27).

    "Sigmund Freud was the pioneer who first tried to explore empirically the unconscious background of consciousness...Before the beginning of this century, Freud and Josef Breuer had recognized that neurotic symptoms — hysteria, certain types of pain, and abnormal behavior—are in fact symbolically meaningful. They are one way in which the unconscious mind expresses itself, just as it may in dreams; and they are equally symbolic. A patient, for instance, who is confronted with an intolerable situation may develop a spasm whenever he tries to swallow: He 'can’t swallow it.' Under similar conditions of psychological stress, another patient has an attack of asthma: He 'can’t breathe the atmosphere at home.' A third suffers from a peculiar paralysis of the legs: He can’t walk, i.e., 'he can’t go on any more.' A fourth, who vomits when he eats, 'cannot digest' some unpleasant fact.
    I could cite many examples of this kind, but such physical reactions are only one form in which the problems that trouble us unconsciously may express themselves. They more often find expression in our dreams" (ibid., p. 24-6).
    And just to give you an idea of how scientific and reliable psychoanalysis and dream interpretation is:

    "Freud worked in the laboratory of Ernst Brucke, one of a group of physiologists who had attempted to found a science of biology on thoroughly materialistic grounds. In his autobiography, Freud described Brucke as the person 'who carried more weight with me than anyone else in my whole life'" (Armand Nicholi Jr, The Question of God, p. 20).

    "You may be surprised to learn that in Europe we have heard very frequently judgments passed on psychoanalysis by persons who knew nothing of its technique and had never practised it, but who demanded scornfully that we show the correctness of our results. There are among these people some who are not in other things unacquainted with scientific methods of thought, who for example would not reject the result of a microscopical research because it cannot be confirmed with the naked eye in anatomical preparations, and who would not pass judgment until they had used the microscope" (Sigmund Freud, The Origin & Development of Pscyhoanalysis, pp. 44-5).
    Carl Jung correctly noted that many Christians today have forgotten that God still speaks today through dreams (Numbers 12:6).

    “Christians often ask why God does not speak to them, as he is believed to have done in former days. When I hear such questions, it always makes me think of the rabbi who was asked how it could be that God often showed himself to people in the olden days while nowadays nobody ever sees him. The rabbi replied: 'Nowadays there is now longer anybody who can bow low enough.'
    This answer hits the nail on the head. We are so captivated by and entangled in our subjective consciousness that we have forgotten the age-old fact that God speaks chiefly through dreams and visions. The Buddhist discards the world of unconscious fantasies as useless illusions; the Christian puts his Church and his Bible between himself and his unconscious; and the rational intellectual does not yet know that his consciousness is not his total psyche. This ignorance persists today in spite of the fact that for more than 70 years the unconscious has been a basic scientific concept that is indispensable to any serious psychological investigation” (Jung, Man and His Symbols).​
     
    #120 Jope, Mar 28, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
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