I was not backing out.
What did Jesus do? A Biblical case for using the Law in evangelism
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, Jan 8, 2016.
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
The message I preach when I open air encompasses the law and repentance because Jesus is coming back so in effect yes the message John preached is what I also preach. -
InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
a.) preached repentance to the Gentiles because Jesus was coming back
b.) Used the 10 commandments
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
If all you mean is that you talk about sin, well everyone who uses the Romans Road or similar plans do that. And depending on your definition, virtually all personal evangelists (and street preachers) call on people to repent. I know I do when I witness for Christ. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly. -
evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
John of Japan give me till the weekend to reply. I can get busy during the week especially working OT.
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Internet Theologian did you start reading Jesus Christ Our Lord? What do you think? Pretty deep huh?
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The reason I ask is important. Deuteronomy clearly states that the Law is given within a covenant to Israel (Deut. 5). We know that a covenant once given cannot be altered (Ps. 89), so Gentiles and those who lived prior to Moses were not "under the Law" insofar as Torah or the Ten Commandments are concerned and Gentiles never were. I do not see that this is even debatable without denying several passages. So I grant that Rev. was correct that you are probably not saying people today are "under the Law" or the Ten Commandments. If you are saying we were/are all under the Law then we need to stop and look again at the covenant (we can't build on a weak foundation). But if you are saying that God's nature is revealed to all in terms of a moral law and that this is reflected in the Ten Commandments so you believe it appropriate to use them to explain sin then you are closer to orthodox than I had first believed (and I'm sorry for misunderstanding you).
So if we are tracking there then my question regards the topic of the OP. Are you saying that using the Law is the best method and that everyone should be using it, or are you saying that you have found using the Law the best method for you? -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
John of Japan
Hello JOJ, Thank you for your response. We have not really interacted much that I recall.
It looks as if we agree on some things, but I did find some of your responses a bit odd.
I will attempt to clarify where I think there is some misunderstanding and then I will also go at your post where it seems to need that kind of attention.
I have heard that Japan is a hard place to make gospel in roads but you know by experience so I can be thankful to God that you were up to the task in that place.
You can feel free to go at any of my responses as hard as you can if you need anything clariifed or feel a more intense discussion is in order. I of course will do the same toward you.
First off;
I agree with that. That being said I believe I have a different message and approach than you do for several reasons. I travel everyday and see many new faces daily and have learned to adapt to that reality.
Many times I come across unchurched persons. I will often give a brief over view of Redemptive History......creation, the fall, Covenant promise ,Israel as a nation, The Exodus,The 10 commandments,Israel's rebellion, the promised Messiah to come, The incarnation, The trumphal entry, the King coming to Zion,the Cross, the Blood,the resurrection, ascension, and coming again, Judgment to come, eternal state.
I do not always do each part, I add or take away depending on the person,and if I see or sense conviction.....I might for example highlight The passover....when I see the blood I will pass over you...or the first Exodus with Moses, and the second Exodus In Christ.
When the conversation gets to salvation, I explain that, and then explain God calls people into His Kingdom, they are translated from darkness to light, then speak of Kingdom responsibilities here and now. I do this as often as I can and with as many people as the Lord allows.
This all depends on the response and the time for such interaction.
In a restaurant setting, I will sometimes draw out a timeline with the cross central to it.
21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,
22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Of course this deals with strengthening believers.....but the Kingdom is central to this teaching that took place .
You seen to be a dispensational fundamentalist...is that correct? I say this because of reading you previous posts you like others fragment scripture more than is needful.
What do I mean by that? 1 chapter earlier we see the kind of teaching and preaching that was going on.
38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.
So....The elements are present here. That does not require every passage to stress the same truths does it? This passage does not say they need to be born again, but we can figure that was explained or taught by the Apostles, can't we?
I did not say that did I? What I am speaking of is the regulative principle.
In the public worship of God, specific requirements are made, and we are not free either to ignore them or to add to them. Typical by way of formulation are the words of Calvin: “God disapproves of all modes of worship not expressly sanctioned by his Word” (“The Necessity of Reforming the Church”); and the Second London Baptist Confession of 1689: “The acceptable way of worshiping the true God, is instituted by himself, and so limited by his own revealed will, that he may not be worshiped according to the imagination and devices of men, nor the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representations, or any other way not prescribed in the Holy Scriptures” (22.1).
Paul tells them ....He PREACHED to them, He says "if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you"...in vs 3, and vs 4........according to the SCRIPTURES.... Notice...not just 3 facts as important as those facts are....but those facts...ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES.... That would include all the promises and Covenant realities that you apparently do not mention ???
My problem with your response is how you seem to make as if the NT comes to us in a vacuum, and there is no continuity between OT / NT.
You do not want that to be your position do you? What promises were believing Gentiles grafted into in Romans 11.....were there two Olive trees or ONE? -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterJonC δοῦλος said: ↑Hey Icon. I apologize for my lack of clarity. To keep it simple and plain, you stated to JoJ that all sin can be traced back to the Decalogue. My disagreement is that I believe all sin can be traced back to rebellion against God, his law based on his nature. People sinned for centuries before the Decalogue, and those apart from the covenant under which the law was given sin apart from the Law as well.
So to clear up any confusion, I think that the Decalogue is covenantal to Israel (Deut. 5) and all people sinned in violation of God's law before and apart from the Law (and the Decalogue).Click to expand...
JonC and JOJ,
I believe man was given the ten commandments before they were written in stone upon MT Sinai.
I do not think they were an after thought. So Jonc that answers your statement about rebellion against God...yes..it always was rebellion against the 10 commandmnents. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
John of Japan
Wait a minute. By the standard of 1 Cor. 15:1-8 it clearly presents the Gospel. What is false about it?
I really don't know what you mean by this. You must have "car lag." :)Click to expand...
Are you actually suggesting that Moses was trying to evangelize Pharoah?Click to expand...
What and How was the Love of God extended to Pharoah, and then His soldiers in the red sea?
David is another villain cuting of Goliaths head? What was that wonderful plan for Goliath?
I've also seen some really bad tracts in my day,Click to expand...
Please take your Calvinism to the proper thread.Click to expand...
here is what I posted;
We have good news that Jesus died for sinners.
\the love of God is only found IN CHRIST...never outside of Christ.
You have no biblical warrant to say to random sinners if God loves them or not.
God loves sinners...In Christ. but this is another thread.
I speak and post truth and you recognize it as Calvinism? I did not mention Calvinism at all.
When you suggest the 4 spiritual laws, I did not ask you to take your Finneyism to another thread did I?
What is your gripe with Calvinism, which simply looks at all 66 books as revealed, God's Eternal covenant made known to the Church EPH 3:9-11 -
Iconoclast said: ↑When you suggest the 4 spiritual laws, I did not ask you to take your Finneyism to another thread did I?Click to expand...
Produce the "Four Spiritual Laws" or a link to them.
Then produce an accurate link to what Finney believed and demonstrate how the two are the same.
BTW, do you believe in Purgatory, baptismal regeneration, infant baptism, etc. like your Augustinian forefathers do?
The logic of "guilty by association" is a fallacy. Just as I painted you as a follower of Augustine in all things because you follow him in some things, you paint others of following certain people because they have similar but not the same beliefs. The RCC believes the trinity and so do I. That doesn't make me a Catholic. But this is the kind of logic you are using. -
InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporterevangelist6589 said: ↑So Gentiles have not sinned? Gentiles do not have the law written on their heart? Read your Bible man.Click to expand...
You said you preach repentance because Jesus is coming (similar to John the Baptist.) But John the Baptist preached to Jews.
The apostle Paul preached to Gentiles. He did not preach "repent because Jesus is coming soon" nor did he use the ten commandments. Yet you say your technique is the Biblical model. So please show us where Paul preached repentance because Jesus was returning and also show us where he used the 10 commandments. -
evangelist6589 said: ↑Internet Theologian did you start reading Jesus Christ Our Lord? What do you think? Pretty deep huh?Click to expand...
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite SupporterInTheLight said: ↑OK, and since you are mostly preaching to Gentiles, and since Paul was the example of preaching to the Gentiles (Gal. 2:8), can you find a Biblical example where Paul:
a.) preached repentance to the Gentiles because Jesus was coming back
b.) Used the 10 commandments
??Click to expand... -
...yes, some of us don't need a long drawn out assertion to read between the lines and see the falsehood and error. Repentance is demanded of all men, Jew and Gentile. There is one Gospel, not two. It is the same for all.
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite SupporterInTheLight said: ↑OK, and since you are mostly preaching to Gentiles, and since Paul was the example of preaching to the Gentiles (Gal. 2:8), can you find a Biblical example where Paul:
a.) preached repentance to the Gentiles because Jesus was coming back
b.) Used the 10 commandments
??Click to expand...
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.Click to expand...
Gal_3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.Click to expand...
Gal_3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.Click to expand...
1Co_1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.Click to expand...
Col_1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.Click to expand...
Further, why would we come to Jesus for the removal of our sin and yet have no intention to repent of them? That is absurd, contrary, contradictory, and just plain odd. Such a message is a message of deceit, not found in scripture and leaves people lost as the day is long.
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