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What do Baptists and Catholics have in common?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Peggy, Feb 10, 2010.

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  1. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    You miss the part where the adult catachumins must go to confession which has to do with the remission of sins. Does it not? As far as baptism being regenerative the CoC thinks the same thing and scriptures can seem to allude to it. Before a Catholics is baptised (save for infants) they must be catachized and know what their admission is.
    Catholics claim to believe it. You contention is that they don't. However, they say they do.

    As far as infants its a different catagory.
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    As an outsider looking at the two of you - I would say your list is pretty good.

    however here is where I think your list is a bit weak.

    Catholics accept the Bible as the "Word of God" as you say - but that did not stop them from burning bibles so that the common people could not have access to it.

    However the bigger problem there - is the "supreme authority" of scripture from a Baptist point of view means that all doctrine and faith and practice are to be tested "Sola scripture".

    But "Them is fightin' words" every time I menion that idea on a Catholic message board. (As well as on this board - when Catholic members respond to it).

    So in this case Adventists are actually closer to Baptists on that one belief.

    This would have been a perfect fit - if that bit about "creation" were not added. Catholic universitiies teach that evolutionism is the right view of origins - not the Bible teaching on creation.

    So in this case Adventists are actually closer to Baptists on that one belief.


    This also is pretty close except for that part about "coming to the Father through Jesus Christ".

    It seems that I recall an encyclical discussing the reasons why Christians should NOT pray directly to the Father - a few years ago.

    So in this case Adventists are actually closer to Baptists on that one belief.

    I agree that - that one is also "pretty close" - however Baptists believe in the Heb 10 "ONCE for ALL" sacrifice of Christ - and Catholic doctrine promotes more of a "continuing sacrifice" where priests daily "confect the body of Christ" and the sacrifice is "participated in"

    So in this case Adventists are actually closer to Baptists on that one belief.

    I think actually works out as you say. Complete agreement.


    Agreed. You get that one right as well.

    If by "visible representation of Christ on earth" you mean that Catholics believe that Baptists are the visible representation of Christ on earth - then that is a new one on me regarding Catholic doctrine.

    Baptists hold open communion - Catholics do not.

    Thus the Catholic church would forbid a baptist from taking part in the mass.

    Furthermore - Catholic teaching on the New Covenant is that Baptists are not saved under the New Covenant because in Catholic doctrine the New Covenant is limited to the Catholic Mass.

    So in this case Adventists are actually closer to Baptists on that one belief.

    I think you are right on that point.

    But they differ on everything else about those ordinances.

    For Catholics there is no such thing as limitiing baptism to believers or limiting it to the Biblical model of immersion.

    The other difference is that Catholics have MORE than "two ordinances".

    So in this case Adventists are actually closer to Baptists on that one belief.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    But they differ on everything else when it comes to Religious Liberty.

    The Catholic view is that the Lateran IV statement calling for the "extermination of heretics and Jews" was an infallible statement and is part of Canon law. Forcing the conscience - forcing conversions, torementing heretics is a large "difference" between those two groups in terms of doctrine and practice.

    So in this case Adventists are actually closer to Baptists on that one belief.


    Catholic hierarchy is much more structured and rigid than the Baptist model. It goes way beyond "we cooperate". Thus the Baptist model is the polar OPPOSITE to the Catholic model.

    In that regard Adventists are somewhere between.

    I have no idea what Catholics believe regarding end time events. They seem to speak "against" it more than they reveal what they actually believe about it.

    You left out some key points of agreement where Catholics agree with Baptists - but Adventists do not.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  4. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    >>There is one gospel, that is the Good News that Christ came down to earth, preached, suffered, died and was buried for our sins. On that we can agree!


    >I see. So then, do you believe that Mormons preach the same Gospel, as well?

    YES! As long as the resurrection is included. If Satan preached it it would still be the Gospel.

    Christian denominations try to take the place of the Holy Spirit by adding what they think is the proper response to the Gospel to the Gospel and then claiming that their total package is the Gospel.

    There is no money or power in preaching that Jesus died and was raised for the sins of the world. The money and power comes from preaching "and now you must do what we tell you if you want the benefits of the Gospel."
     
  5. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    No man can forgive sins. Only God can forgive sins.
    Look in Mark chapter two, when Jesus was in the synagogue, and they brought to him a man sick with the palsy. Jesus healed him:

    Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
    --What he said angered the Pharisees:

    Mark 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

    The Pharisees were correct. Only God can forgive sins. They were just not willing to believe that Christ was God.
    No priest can forgive sins. As the Pharisees point out it is blasphemy for them to say that they do.

    Because the COC believes that baptism is a part of salvation does not make it right. It makes them as wrong as the Hindus and just as pagan. They are trusting in their baptism to save them and not in Christ.
     
  6. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    No man can forgive sins? Then why does the lord say in his prayer "And forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin agiansst us"? If we are unable to forgive then God cannot possibly for give us.
    However, apart from that point I get your meaning with regard to imputed righteousness. However, my point was not whether a priest can forgive a mans sins but that a repentance must occur with conversion resulting in baptism. Which catholics believe a man must repent if they truelly have faith.
     
  7. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    Surely you know the difference between a sin against another human being and a sin against God, don't you?
     
  8. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    When we offend a person, we go to that person and ask forgiveness, not a priest. What does a priest have to do it with it?

    1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    When David sinned by committing adultery against Bathsheba, and then murdered Uriah, he said in his prayer of repentance:
    "Against thee and thee only have I sinned." The sin was against God.

    All sin is against God. It is to Him we must go.
    1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    A priest has no power to forgive sins; only God has that power.
     
  9. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    As far as David if Uriah had lived I am sure he would have went to him for forgiveness but since he was dead only one could forgive. And all sins against other men are ultimately sins against God.
    Still you missed my point which was not whether a priest can forgive sins which is a rabbit chase. My point was that before there is a declaration of faith, before there is a baptism, there is a Catholic Requirement for repentance.
     
  10. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    In general both believe they have a corner on the truth about God.
     
  11. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    If Jesus is the Mediator between God and man, then that means that that's Christ's mediatorial office.

    If you really think that the Mormon gospel is the same as the Biblical Gospel, then you're either grossly ignorant of their gospel or grossly ignorant of the Christian Gospel.
     
    #31 JohnDeereFan, Feb 11, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2010
  12. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    No it doesn't. He is the Mediator. He doesn't hold it as an office.
     
  13. lori4dogs

    lori4dogs New Member

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    The Catholic Church teaches that you Baptist are saved by Grace without the sacraments, don't they?
     
  14. Zenas

    Zenas Active Member

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    Dut DHK, look at Matthew 9:6-8. It uses the term "men" (plural). Jesus was only one man so who were these men to whom God had given the power to forgive sins?
     
  15. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    Is it the word "office" that you're having trouble with? If so, what is it about the word that you object to?
     
    #35 JohnDeereFan, Feb 11, 2010
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  16. Zenas

    Zenas Active Member

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    Very good, Crabby. :laugh:
     
  17. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Matthew 9:6-8 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. And he arose, and departed to his house. But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.

    They didn't believe that Jesus Christ was God and thus the use of the word "men." They still believed that he was just another man; just another prophet, one of many "men." They denied his deity, questioned his power to forgive sins. The fact remains. Their assertion was correct. Only God has power to forgive sins. They did not believe Christ was God and did not believe Christ had that power, and therefore accused him of blasphemy.
     
  18. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    What do Baptists and Catholics have in common?

    The Scriptures, and that's about it. Their traditions, however, are antithetical to the Scriptures.
     
  19. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Nope. They don't believe we are saved outside the Church.
     
  20. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    Not according to these guys:

    "Let them (those separate from the Catholic Church) not think that the way of life or salvation exists for them, if they have refused to obey the bishops and priests...For they cannot live outside, since there is only one house of God, and there can be no salvation for anyone except in the Church." St. Cyprian: "Letters 61:4".
    http://www.catholic.com/library/Salv...the_Church.asp


    "Just as no man can enter any place without the help of him who has the keys, so no one is admitted to Heaven unless its gates be unlocked by the priests to whose custody the Lord gave the keys." Catechism of Trent, p. 286, (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 5: "The Book of Obedience", Chapter 2: "No One Can Be Saved Who Refuses Obedience to the Pastors of the Church").
    ]http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/6480/catholics/apostolic5chp2.html


    "You must submit yourself faithfully to those who have charge of divine things, and you must look to them for the means of your salvation." Pope St. Gelasius I, RCH, vol. 1, p.147, (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 5: "The Book of Obedience", Chapter 3: "The Sacraments Administered by the Priests Are Necessary for the Salvation of All Mankind").
    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy...lic5chp3.html]


    "For if any one will consider how great a thing it is for one, being a man, and compassed with flesh and blood, to be enabled to draw nigh to that blessed and pure nature, he will then clearly see what great honor the grace of the Spirit has vouchsafed to priests; since by their agency these rites are celebrated, and others nowise inferior to these both in respect of our dignity and our salvation. For they who inhabit the earth and make their abode there are entrusted with the administration of things which are in Heaven, and have received an authority which God has not given to angels or archangels...and what priests do here below God ratifies above, and the Master confirms the sentence of his servants. For indeed what is it but all manner of heavenly authority which He has given them when He says, 'Whose sins ye remit they are remitted, and whose sins ye retain they are retained?' What authority could be greater than this? 'The Father hath committed all judgment to the Son?' But I see it all put into the hands of these men by the Son. For they have been conducted to this dignity as if they were already translated to Heaven, and had transcended human nature, and were released from the passions to which we are liable....For transparent madness it is to despise so great a dignity, without which it is not possible to obtain either our own salvation, or the good things which have been promised to us. For if no one can enter into the kingdom of Heaven except he be regenerate through water and the Spirit, and he who does not eat the flesh of the Lord and drink His blood is excluded from eternal life, and if all these things are accomplished only by means of those holy hands, I mean the hands of the priest, how will any one, without these, be able to escape the fire of hell, or to win those crowns which are reserved for the victorious?" St. John Chrysostom, Treatise on the Priesthood, Book III, #5, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Series I, Vol. IX.
    http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-09/npnf1-09-08.htm
     
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