Sinai, the thunder and the lightning, the cloud, the fire, the trumpet sound (not trumpet music), the voice, all these were types and shadows. They were not the real things. Christ bore the real things on the Cross.
They did not hear 'God's trumpet,' or the sound of the music of heaven at Sinai. Sinai was all about terror. Heb. 12:18 ff. I'm sitting rather pretty in the assurance that the trumpet blast was just that.
There's no Scripture that tells me what beauty is, either, but I sure know it when I see it.
Yes. Notice that it's the flutes and harps that give a plurality of distinct sounds, and the sound of the trumpet is singular.
I don't need luck, just the ability to read.
Irrelevant.
What Do You Believe about Demonic Instrumental Music?
Discussion in 'Music Ministry' started by Scripture More Accurately, Mar 2, 2021.
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We cannot know if demonic instrumental music does or does not exist.
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There is no such thing as demonic instrumental music.
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Demonic instrumental music exists and all of it is neutral because it is just music.
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Demonic instrumental music exists and all of it pleases God.
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Demonic instrumental music exists and none of it pleases God; it all displeases Him.
5 vote(s)41.7% -
Demonic instrumental music exists and some of it pleases God and the rest does not.
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Demonic instrumental music exists, but we cannot know whether any of it pleases God or not.
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Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
Revelation 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
Revelation 14:2 καὶ ἤκουσα φωνὴν ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ, ὡς φωνὴν ὑδάτων πολλῶν, καὶ ὡς φωνὴν βροντῆς μεγάλης· καὶ φωνὴν ἤκουσα κιθαρῳδῶν κιθαριζόντων ἐν ταῖς κιθάραις αὐτῶν.
It is very plain that the many waters and the many harpers harping with their harps were not producing one single sound in the sense of playing only one tone one time.
Concerning the singular noun in 1 Cor 14:8, that singular does not prove anything about what was played by the trumpet. In fact, the meaning of what Paul has just taught in 14:7 requires that the trumpet (or any other instrument) has to play a distinction in tones for any intelligible meaning to be communicated:
1 Corinthians 14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? 8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
1 Corinthians 14:7 ὅμως τὰ ἄψυχα φωνὴν διδόντα, εἴτε αὐλός, εἴτε κιθάρα, ἐὰν διαστολὴν τοῖς φθόγγοις μὴ δῷ, πῶς γνωσθήσεται τὸ αὐλούμενον ἢ τὸ κιθαριζόμενον; 8 καὶ γὰρ ἐὰν ἄδηλον φωνὴν σάλπιγξ δῷ, τίς παρασκευάσεται εἰς πόλεμον;
Note that in 14:7, Paul used a singular φωνὴν to denote the sound of the a pipe or a harp that actually would be playing multiple tones (τοῖς φθόγγοις; which is a different Greek word in the plural). The Greek word rendered "sounds" in 14:7 (φθόγγοις) is not the same Greek word rendered "sound" in 14:8 (φωνὴν).
Paul is not teaching in 14:8 that the trumpet is playing only one tone; if he were, he would be contradicting the very thing that he just taught in 14:7.
There are undoubtedly examples in the LXX that would show the same singular use of φωνὴν to denote what in actuality comprised multiple discrete sounds that were heard.
If you want to see such examples, I'll take the time to show you them, but I think that I have already made the point. -
The point is that the description of musical instruments in visions and in the types and shadows of the law are metaphorical. Corporeal man has not even conceived of the things of heaven. Thinking that there are harps and trumpets and music as we know it, and that God is affected by the sounds we make on them is puerile and superstitious. And you're missing the point of the law, and the whole purpose of music.
We have not come to the mountain that can be touched. We have come to Mount Zion. It cannot be perceived with the senses.
No, this is not a future thing. Read the Scripture.
you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering
Music, as you are talking about it, is a corporeal thing. It is a human thing. It was made for man, and it takes man to make it. Forget about the harps in heaven. If there are machines in heaven, they're nothing like you've ever seen, and the singing is nothing like you've ever heard or will hear in earth. Your appeals to your superstitious notions of them are in vain.
Musical instruments were not employed in the synagogues. They were not employed in worship by the early church, and the Early Fathers with one accord shunned them as relics of Judaism.
There's no music in Hell, and we've falsified your insistence that anything used in idol worship is automatically demonic. You had to concede that ol' Neb might have used some good things in idol worship, which, as you pointed out, is really the worship of demons. And do you know how you arrived at that concession? By applying musicology. The description of an instrument is musicology, however elementary.
You can't escape it. -
Now in regards to music; if they have influence by means of sinful or carnal lyrics, then I can see the Lord judging that kind of music, but if there were demonic instrumental ones alone, surely He would have pointed it out in His words as judging it as such to warn & protect His saints, would He not? -
Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
There is a huge dispute over what the phrase "all kinds of music" means in Daniel 3. A common understanding of that phrase is to signify that there were many other instruments used that were not specifically listed. That understanding would mean the argument that you are trying to make from that passage is totally invalidated.
Moreover, the word for "sound" is singular in Daniel 3:5 and all the other references to music in that passage and some, perhaps, many understand that mean nothing more than a "signal blast," which according to your previous statements would not be music at all.
In any case, to eliminate any possible misunderstanding going forward, I did not concede at all that Neb. used good things in his idol worship in Daniel 3. -
Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
God commanded man to play music on stringed instruments to give to Him the glory due His name in worship.
Psalm 33:2 Praise the LORD with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings. 3 Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.
These divine commands were not for the glory of man--they were made to give God the glory that was (and is) due Him. -
Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
No, God has not given us an exhaustive catalog of the evil activities of Satan and his demons in defiling God's universe. They do so both by corrupting good things that God has made and by originating evil combinations of good things that God never intended to be combined in those ways. -
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Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
Where does the Bible teach that God has said that all possible combinations of musical elements that can be made to make instrumental music are all good and all pleasing to Him?
Much more importantly, where does the Bible teach that He will accept the offering to Him in worship whatever combinations of instrumental musical elements humans decide to make and think are good? -
Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
Isaiah 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. -
[EDIT] Just looking at your response to @Hark (#70) regarding stringed instruments, and now I'm wondering. Are you suggesting that music from all stringed instruments is to be rejected?
I'm glad to learn that the claim of popular hymns having their roots in tavern songs is false. Thank you for sharing that. -
tyndale1946 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. -
Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
Concerning when music forms merge, Scripture teaches the principle that a little leaven leavens the whole lump. Taking something evil and combining it with something else is not something that is acceptable to God.
Syncretistic worship has defiled and plagued God's people throughout much of their history. We must not use any kinds of instrumental music (whether it is accompanying singing or not) in worship where there is any question about God's accepting it. -
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Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
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Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
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Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
I will never agree with people who hold such views. -
Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
Acts 19:18 And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds. 19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20 So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.
Once these former occultists were saved, they burned all of their books about their occult practices. They did not care that those books were worth an enormous amount of money.
These new believers exemplify what God wants Christians to do with all the music of the occult that they have allowed in their lives and their churches. God calls all of His people to destroy all such materials from their lives.
After I became a believer, I destroyed a vast amount of rock and other music that I owned in which I was immersed prior to my salvation. May God grant to many others that they would turn away completely from this demonic music and give Him the glory that is due His name by doing so.
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