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What Do You Believe about the Millennium?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Scripture More Accurately, Apr 5, 2021.

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  1. Amillennial

    5 vote(s)
    17.2%
  2. Postmillennial

    1 vote(s)
    3.4%
  3. Dispensational Premillennialism

    12 vote(s)
    41.4%
  4. Historic Premillennialism

    5 vote(s)
    17.2%
  5. Other

    5 vote(s)
    17.2%
  6. Not sure

    1 vote(s)
    3.4%
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  1. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

    And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

    What happened to darkness?
     
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  2. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    My notion lines up with plenty of scripture.

    I underlined a part of your quote to show that I totally agree with that part. And, yes, He would bring them (the ones who died in Christ) to meet with those who had been raptured (the ones still alive at the Parousia). In all of this you have solid scriptural backing. But this business about them being "reunited with their bodies" is pure eisegesis. You are reading all of this into the text.

    You wrote "The text does not teach any such thing about people being in Hades."

    True. This particular text does not state that in so many words. But it assumes it.

    Well, let me ask you: Who do you think was (or is in Hades)?
     
  3. xlsdraw

    xlsdraw Active Member

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    And Ezekiel chapters 40-48 Are specific to the Millennial Reign of Christ on Earth. Nothing whatsoever figurative in those chapters. And none of it has occur yet.

    But alas, no one will come to believe it that doesn't already believe it.
     
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  4. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    No, I am not reading anything into the text. The verb for "rise" is an intransitive verb that means "to rise." It does not mean to raise disembodied spirits (into the air or anywhere else).

    1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    16 ὅτι αὐτὸς ὁ Κύριος ἐν κελεύσματι, ἐν φωνῇ ἀρχαγγέλου, καὶ ἐν σάλπιγγι Θεοῦ καταβήσεται ἀπ᾽ οὐρανοῦ, καὶ οἱ νεκροὶ ἐν Χριστῷ ἀναστήσονται πρῶτον·


    [GING] ἀνίστημι
    ἀνίστημι—1. trans. raise, erect, raise up Ac 9:41. Of the dead raise (up), bring to life J 6:39f; Ac 2:24; 13:34. In the sense cause to appear or to be born Mt 22:24; Ac 3:22.—2. intr. (2 aor. and all mid. forms) rise, stand up, get up Mt 26:62; Lk 11:7f; rise from the dead Mk 9:10, 31; 1 Th 4:16. Short for stand up and go Mk 14:60; Lk 4:38. In the sense appear, come Mt 12:41; Hb 7:11, 15. Weakened to set out, get ready Mk 2:14; Lk 1:39; Ac 8:26; 10:20. [Cf. anastatic, printed from plates in relief.] [pg 16]
     
    #104 Scripture More Accurately, Apr 6, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
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  5. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Ezekiel 40-48 is definitely in the Millennium and will be fulfilled literally.
     
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  6. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Discussing Hades is irrelevant to this passage. The text says that those who sleep in Jesus God will bring with Him. They will already be with Jesus in their spirits.

    He is not going to be bringing their bodies that are asleep. He will bring their spirits. It is not their spirits that are asleep. It is their bodies that are asleep in Christ. It is their bodies that He will raise from the dead.
     
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Really?
    17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings,
    and meat offerings,
    and drink offerings,
    in the feasts,
    and in the new moons,
    and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel:
    he shall prepare the sin offering,
    and the meat offering,
    and the burnt offering,
    and the peace offerings,
    to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

    Sin offerings? new moons? reconciliation?

    Are you sure?
     
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  8. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Really? Have you read the details in those chapters? That would be a sad, unscriptural return to the very things that Messiah did away with by His death, burial, and resurrection.
     
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  9. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Yes, really. I have read the details in those chapters every year for more than 30 years.
     
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  10. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Exactly!
     
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  11. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    The passage means something. What does the passage mean and how do you know exactly what it all means?
     
  12. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    It is as if you are not even reading what I wrote . Oh well, take care. No sense continuing this with you
     
  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Yes it does mean something. The whole 8 chapters speak in symbols of the NT> Church, the fulfillment as it is in Christ. All sacrifices and feasts pointed to the Lord Jesus Christ.
    I am reading a book now, so I will try and get back to this.
     
  14. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    That approach makes a total mockery of language, and it is impossible to handle the passage consistently and make it about the Church.
     
  15. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I had come across an outline of the whole book of Ezekiel that can clarify alot.
    It is in Georgia, I am in Wisconsin, so I cannot get my hands on it.

    Let me give you a quick example...you are looking to avoid the "mark of the beast correct"? Do you believe it is a literal mark on the right hand or the forehead?
    SMA.....both Tom R. and I had already been exposed to the teaching you and others are offering. We hold many things in common, but we differ.
    He has the freedom to hold what he does, as you do.
    We can present most of what you believe, but can you present what either one of us believes?
    I am not asking you to "believe it", but can you explain it?
     
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  16. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Probably not. What I do know, I find to be contrary to what I believe the Bible teaches.

    Yes, we are all free to hold what we believe to be true.

    Just as you believe that you can show where my view is wrong, I believe that I can show that the notion that Ezekiel 40-48 is about the Church is wrong and an impossible reading of the passage.
     
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I asked you a question about the mark of the beast.Is a literal or symbolic?

    29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    when does this occur? is it literal or symbolic? is it the end of the world?
     
  18. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    I have no biblical reason or basis to hold that it is not literal. Do you?

    In any case, I do not believe that I will have to deal with that matter because I believe in a pretribulational rapture of the Church.
     
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  19. Jesus Saves!

    Jesus Saves! Active Member

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    Christ said he came to do the will of him that sent him. He did and said it’s finished. So, he has accomplished what e was sent to do. He will return to get his bride, the church. We’ll be gathered with him in the air.

    1 Corinthians 15:50 KJV
    [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

    To me, this shows it’s not a earthly kingdom. As David was king over Israel in the flesh, Christ is king over spiritual Israel, those truly born again.

    Acts 2:29-32 KJV
    [29] Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. [30] Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; [31] He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. [32] This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

    This shows that God has already raised Him up to sit on the throne and reign over the true Israel of God.

    Romans 9:6-8 KJV
    [6] Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: [7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. [8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
     
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  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Here is a literal mark that was not visible to the people;
    Ezekiel 9 King James Version (KJV)
    9 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.

    2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.

    3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;

    4 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

    5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

    6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

    7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

    8 And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord God! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?

    9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The Lord hath forsaken the earth, and the Lord seeth not.

    10 And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.

    11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.
     
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