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What Do You Believe about the Millennium?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Scripture More Accurately, Apr 5, 2021.

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  1. Amillennial

    5 vote(s)
    17.2%
  2. Postmillennial

    1 vote(s)
    3.4%
  3. Dispensational Premillennialism

    12 vote(s)
    41.4%
  4. Historic Premillennialism

    5 vote(s)
    17.2%
  5. Other

    5 vote(s)
    17.2%
  6. Not sure

    1 vote(s)
    3.4%
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  1. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I agree. And that in bold began on Pentecost following the resurrection of Jesus. God began calling out a people for his name, from the Jew first and also from the Greek, giving them his Spirit as an earnest of their redemptive inheritance. They make up the church, Acts 15:8 & 14 Eph 1:13,14

    After this taking out a people for his name Jesus will return and rebuild the tabernacle of David, establish the throne of David on the earth, He and that remnant Joel 2:32/Acts 15:16 will reunite Judah and Israel Ezek 37:24 Rom 11:26 Acts 15:17 and then minister to the residue of man. Acts 15:17

    IMHO means that is how I understand the scriptures. I ='s me. Everyone else can have their own opinion and I am fine with that. I can only express mine and post how it may differs from another.
     
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  2. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Probably why, "in a moment in the twinkling of an eye," is used.
     
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  3. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    One still has to deny Hebrews 12:18-23 to deny that Revelation 20 is symbolism.

    He has to deny Ephesians 2:6 .

    And many more places in the Epistles and the Gospels must be denied or twisted so that one may have his holy land in the future.
     
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  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for gathering these wonderful verses Kyred.
    I never grow weary of seeing verses describing the victory of God, as the gospel reign overcomes all the nations and those who oppose.
     
  5. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    School is over, Galatians 3:25 . I don't think there will be a "fourth act." Good analysis, anyway.
     
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  6. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Thanks.

    When dragons are attempting to eat babies and Jesus has a sword sticking out of His mouth, I am prepared to entertain the possibility that the whole book is about symbolism. However even without any "millennium" there will be a fourth act: Post judgement, new bodies, wedding feast, mansion of many rooms and eternity with Him (all from clear passages outside of Revelation).

    Does it come with an earthly Prologue is the only question?
     
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  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Good points.
    Having held that position in times past, I know how they attempt to support it. For it to happen that way, everything that existed in the first century has to be recreated, sort of a "do-over"......rebuild a temple, animal sacrifices, antichrist, abomination that makes desolate,Jerusalem surrounded, etc.
    It happened once. The cross happened once. The ascension and coronation of our King happened once.
     
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  8. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Throwing a little butter on the slander doesn’t make it taste any better.

    I never stated you slandered me by name. I stated you slandered Christian brethren in general who disagree with you on a very debatable issue.

    You are correct that I couldn’t help myself to call you out on an inappropriate post. I do so in Christian love with the hope you will realize your error and commit to a more civil discourse.

    Thanks for the conversation

    peace to you
     
  9. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Oozing sanctimoniousness.
     
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  10. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Typing too fast again, and I cannot edit it. I meant "Christ-dishonoring".
     
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    John of Japan,
    Hello JOJ, although I am in Wisconsin, I am wandering around the bottom parts until Thursday....racine today, madison and Janesville tomorrow and Thursday, so the Cinnabons are still on hold:Sneaky

    Thankfully theologians after world war two do not have the final say of the reign of Jesus. The stock answer from post-mill types these days is we do not get our teaching from the newspapers but rather the scriptures.
    There is no misconception on how evil and depraved mankind is since the fall. Gen.6
    5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.


    What you say is accurate in that many departed from considering the view as it looked as if the world was getting worse and worse.
    Those who are critical of the view expect a steady upward growth,sort of like a rocket take-off from Cape Canaveral.
    The reality is it is more like going over a mountain range.you go up, then down, then sideways, but overall progress is steady.
    The gospel was first welcomed only in Israel, but now it has even gone into Japan;)
    Reformed people gravitate to the puritans in their reading on all manner of studying. The look at what was the Puritan view of Mt. 28:18-20.


    Not everyone shares your understanding John.I am glad I know which each view offers.

    Many today are looking at the misguided and weak churches as more of a culprit, than world events.

    I understand your comment. That is why at this time why I refer to myself as a sort of"reluctant postmill":Sick:Sick:Sick.
    i say reluctant because I had been taught to avoid this view as you have spoken of. I have tried to resist it, but it seems more consistent to me .
    I am the only postmill on the poll so far,lol.i share more with the Amill or historic premill that your view.
    I believe Hebrews 2:5-8 indicates that regenerate man has been called upon to take up gen 1:26-28 ,
    26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness
    : and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    gen 2;15.

    Because liberals jumped onboard and twisted the teaching into a social gospel, does not disqualify the teaching itself. They attach themselves like barnacles on a ship, but are not part of the ship.

    I am not able to defend or present the position as solidly as I would like to, but I will be coming from that point of view until I know to do otherwise
    .
     
  12. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the conversation.

    peace to you
     
  13. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Had
    More Than Conquerors: An Interpretation of the Book of Revelation
    and read it and Dean Davis' The High King of Heaven, four times, each.

    Just got in
    The Bible and the Future
    by Anthony A. Hoekema

    &

    A Case for Amillennialism: Understanding the End Times

    so, I am a beginner. But, I'm not a novice ( my word for those who read Revelation Chronologically and dream on from there...)

    There ARE THREE-FOURTHS OF THE BIBLE we have been told to IGNORE!, since it pertains to something somewhere else, in some other 'time' that NO ONE AGREES ABOUT....(?)

    NO, THOSE THREE-FOURTHS on The Kingdom of God, etc., ARE FOR NOW and ARE BLESSINGS WE HAVE BEEN ROBBED OF.

    WORSHIP GOD, MORE, BY OPENING UP TO THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE BIBLE!!!!
     
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  14. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ...yuck, zactly what I think of you....
     
  15. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I believe Hebrews 2:5-8 indicates that regenerate man has been called upon to take up gen 1:26-28 ,

    I agree so let me ask.

    When was Hebrews written? Last sentence of 2:8 But now we see not yet all things put under him.

    When do you believe we will see, all things under that man of Genesis 1:26-28 the regenerated man?

    Is this when? Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2
    Is this when? For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. Phil 3:20,21
    Is this when? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matt 19:28

    Is that when they will reign with him? Was that already come to pass? Is that when the predestined are conformed to the image and Jesus then becomes the firstborn of many brethren? Romans 8:29 Hebrews 2:10,11 The Jesus who died and was raised crowned with glory and honour--- But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

    Was that foreordained before the man in Gen 1 was created? Makes you wonder just what all was, foreordained? Predestined?

     
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  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    1cor15:
    22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

    23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

    24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

    25
    For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.


    26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

    27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

    28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


    Adam pre-fall was given Dominion, but the fall disrupted it. Born again believers now can resume that task.
     
  17. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I think this is where we differ.

    Resume has nothing to do with it. It was never intended that the man of Gen 1:27/2:7 would have all things put under him. He was going to have to be better than that.

    It would be this man from your scriptures above: afterward they that are Christ's at his coming It will be after this, which I believe takes place at his coming; And this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood the reign of God is not able to inherit, nor doth the corruption inherit the incorruption;

    IMHO The first man was made as he was in order that the Son of God could be manifested like the first man, die, be raised out of the dead and then the first man could made like the Son of God. Foreordained before the foundation of the world for the purpose of destroying the devil and his works, including death. 1 John 3:8 Heb 2:14

    IMHO that is the purpose of man. The sinner from the beginning, the devil, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan

    I believe Satan needed to be dealt with before the man was created. My opinion.
     
  18. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    For those things I quoted from scripture relative to Satan to be dealt with; Would it have required a being subject to sin that could bring about death?

    When exactly, according to scripture, will Satan be totally for all eternity be dwelt with?

    BTW after what?

    Call it whatever you will but what does scripture call it?
     
  19. Scripture More Accurately

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    You are not handling this passage correctly by claiming that the passage is talking about people who were "already disembodied, who were (past tense) in Hades" as being "the dead in Christ who went up to meet Christ in the air."

    The text does not teach any such thing about people being in Hades.

    Rather, Paul did not to want the living Thessalonians to sorrow without hope about those who are asleep:

    1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

    He then specifies who those people are and where they will have been and what they will experience:

    14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him [Jesus].

    Here Paul teaches that the people that the Thessalonians were sorrowing about who were asleep in Jesus were already with Him and that God would bring them with Jesus. Obviously, He would bring their spirits, which were already with Jesus, back with Jesus to be reunited with their bodies that would rise as incorruptible bodies by His power.

    Their bodies are what are asleep in Jesus, and it is their bodies that will be raised.

    5 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    Your notion that disembodied people who are in Hades are the ones who are the dead in Christ who rise first is wrong.
     
    #99 Scripture More Accurately, Apr 6, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
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  20. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

    My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

    The earth was without form, and void; and darkness, on the face of the deep.

    My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

    What was that darkness?

    This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

    and God saith, 'Let light be;' and light is. And God seeth the light, that good, and God separateth between the light and the darkness,


    What is God about to do? What is God about to set in motion? What is going to be the end result?


    IMHO
     
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