What happens if you die while you're sinning?

[xdisciplex]

There are christians which think if you die while you're sinning and you did not confess this sin then you'll go to hell!
I think this makes no sense, but what do you think? I mean it is a scary thought, isn't it?
What do you think would happen if a christian commits adultery with another wife and her husband comes home and finds the two in his bed and then shoots them both? Would this christian still get to heaven?
I mean I don't want to belittle Jesus' sacrifice.
But what if Jesus would simply say: No, I don't forgive you this sin?
How do we know? I have heard a story of a pastor who went to hell cause he stole money from the church. What if this is true?

 

[J. Jump]

According to Scripture there is no truth that either of these two analogies that are used would see their people sent to eternal hell.

Once a person is saved by grace through faith it is a done deal and it can never be reversed. It is a one time event, and once it is done then God no longer deals with that person concerning salvation by grace through faith. After that point it is time to focus on becoming more like Christ.

 

[xdisciplex]

I don't know. In the bible are a lot of warnings of falling off. Why should they be there when you cannot lose your salvation? This makes no sense.
What about all the analogies and this stuff? This would be totally obsolete if you could not lose your salvation.

 

[D28guy]

"What happens if you die while you're sinning?"

There is no way we can answer that because we have incomplete information. The most important part is left out.

Are they a saved person or a lost person?

When a lost person dies...whether they die commiting a sin or not...they are eternally lost.

When a born again person dies...whether they die commiting a sin or not...they are eternally saved.

Those who say a born again person would be lost if they died while commiting a sin do not believe we are saved by Gods grace through faith in Christ, but rather that we are saved by works.

Thats not the gospel that saves.

The gospel is that when one embraces Christ through faith alone they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, "sealed" into the body of Christ, given new wants and desires, and is guarenteed of heaven when they die.

If their are some things they have trouble overcoming they are without a doubt "grieving the Holy Spirit", and that full passage of scripture says...

"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."

God bless,

Mike

 

[J. Jump]

xdisciplex the warnings given in the Bible about falling away and the like are talking about the salvation of the soul and not the salvation of the spirit, which takes place by salvation by grace through faith.

When one is saved by grace through faith their dead spirit is brought to life by the Holy Spirit and from that point forward is incapable of sinning. That is why the spirit is secure for eternity, because it no longer sins. However, the body and the soul are still in darkness and are capable of sinning and that's why I John tells us that we must confess our sin on a continuing basis in order that our body and soul might be saved.

You can see this in the foot washing ceremony in the Gospel of John and also in the picture of the OT priests who washed ceremonyily one time in their lifetime, but periodically washed parts of their body for the rest of their life.

 

[xdisciplex]

Eh? Salvation of the soul? What is this supposed to be?

I mean who is the warning directed to that you should rather cut off your hand then go to hell with both hands? Is this directed at christians? Does this mean a christian goes to hell if he doesn't eliminate every temptation from his life?

@ D28guy

I know christians which think this, that if a christian dies without being able to confess all sins he goes to hell!
They say when you accept Jesus only the sins which you did until this day are forgiven, the rest has to be confessed to be forgiven. This is pretty disturbing.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by xdisciplex:

I know christians which think this, that if a christian dies without being able to confess all sins he goes to hell!

Is it possible for a Christian to go to Heaven without sinning?
Yes, it is not only possible, it is inevitable that all men will go to heaven with sin. Man is not perfect. We all are sinners.
Is it possible to fully obey this commandment even while dying, or just before death (remember death may come sudden and unexpectedly).

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

BTW, I don't believe any believe is capable of keeping the above commandment.
DHK

[ May 14, 2006, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

[xdisciplex]

Yes, this is correct.
But what if you're dying while doing a sin which does not happen in an instant? For example if you're angry at a person then this can happen in 1 second. 1 angry thought and that's it. But on the other hand what happens if you die while you're robbing a bank? This is a process which is going on. At the moment when you die you're still involved in the sin. This is the difference. Or think about the christian who is shot while he committed adultery with another woman, he also died in the process of sinning and he was not repenting when he died. Most likely he would have repented after sinning but what if he thinks: "I will repent later on." and then he dies while the sin is in progress? What happens then?
I think we have all been in situations where we knew we are doing something wrong and thought: "I'll repent later." But what happens if there is no later?

 

[DHK]

"I give unto you eternal life," Jesus said.
Did he lie.
There were no conditions attached.

 

[xdisciplex]

Um, but what if you do not forgive? Think about the analogy of the ungrateful servant. He did not forgive and because of this he was not forgiven.
Do you think that you can refuse to forgive and be forgiven by God? What sense does this warning make if you cannot lose your salvation?
I mean this is a very serious subject and somehow the thought that you might die and then have a bad awakening because maybe you did something wrong is really scary because there are so many different opinions out there. What if you die and find out you were wrong? What if you die and find out that the christians which thought that unless you confess all sins you're not forgiven were right?

 

[DHK]

I think that there will be in heaven people who have held grudges, and have taken those grudges to their grave with them.
The fact is God has given us a promise.

I give unto you eternal life.
It is an unconditional promise.

Not everyone has the luxury of dying slowly on a hospital reminiscing of all the sins they have committed and confessing them to the Lord.
Many die suddenly without notice. Perhaps a heart attack, a car accident, a plane crash, or any number of things that may instantly kill a believer. You may not have time to go and make things right with your enemy. What then? Will God break his promise because of that? Was the thief on the cross able to go back and forgive all those that he wronged before he died and went to paradise?
DHK

 

[J. Jump]

xdisciplex the modern day idea of hell has been twisted a lot, because the original languages used various words that don't all equal hell.

All the warnings that you see are to believers. Every NT book is written to believers and for their benefit.

The only spiritual truth an unbeliever is able to understand is that Christ died for them and paid the penalty for their sin. And they are able to understand that because of the Holy Spirit. But outside of that the Bible is written to believers.

There are unfaithful Christians that will be disciplined during the 1,000-year reign of Christ instead of ruling and reigning with Him, which is what we are supposed to do. And those that are found faithful will fulfill that role.

That's why day-by-day, moment-by-moment walking and living by the Spirit is SO critical. Today's Christian and today's Christendom believe that somehow all Christians will be found faithful in the end. And that's just not what the Bible teaches.

That's why Christendom is in such sad shape. People say and do whatever they want to do and very few deal with sin, because in the end everyone's going to be okay with God. And there are going to be MANY surprised Christians when they stand in front of Christ on judgment day.

I pray that I will die to self each and every day, each and every moment and allow the Spirit to live in me and work in and through me. Doesn't always work. So when the Holy Spirit shows me something in my life that is grieving the Spirit or quenching the Spirit it must be confessed and dealt with.

Hope that helps. If you want more information on the salvation of the soul go back to the PM that I sent you with the website address and read the book Salvation of the Soul. It will answer a lot of the questions that you have had on this board.

 

[Brother Bob]

What do you think would happen if a christian commits adultery with another wife and her husband comes home and finds the two in his bed and then shoots them both? What makes you think they are Christians?

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by J. Jump:
xdisciplex the modern day idea of hell has been twisted a lot, because the original languages used various words that don't all equal hell.

All the warnings that you see are to believers. Every NT book is written to believers and for their benefit.

The only spiritual truth an unbeliever is able to understand is that Christ died for them and paid the penalty for their sin. And they are able to understand that because of the Holy Spirit. But outside of that the Bible is written to believers.

There are unfaithful Christians that will be disciplined during the 1,000-year reign of Christ instead of ruling and reigning with Him, which is what we are supposed to do. And those that are found faithful will fulfill that role.

The above is a modern day heresy.
Hell is for the wicked, the unsaved, and never has anything to do with the saved. There is no such thing as the saved suffering during the thousand year reign with Christ. In fact if you read Revelation 19, you will find the saints coming back to earth with Christ in their perfected glorified bodies to reign on earth with Christ. How can one receive judgement in a "Baptist purgatory" after already been in heaven for a time, and after having received his glorified body at the resurrection? Preposterous!!

Read about the events of the Great White Throne Judgement where Death and Hell are cast into the Lake of fire (Rev.20:10-15) and will suffer eternal torment day and night forever and ever. Hell contains all the wicked from all ages from the creation of the world to this day. They will then be cast into the Lake of Fire at their final sentencing.
DHK

 

[gekko]

"The only spiritual truth an unbeliever is able to understand is that Christ died for them and paid the penalty for their sin. And they are able to understand that because of the Holy Spirit. But outside of that the Bible is written to believers."

i'll just let the bible correct you on that:

"for the preaching of the cross is to them that perish, foolishness" 1corinthians 1:18

 

[Brother Bob]

hmmm Wonder why He said preach the Gospel to every creature? Wonder who they were preaching to and what were they preaching when 3000 souls were saved?

I don't know any christians who commit adultery. I have known a few so-called-christians but the Lord said from such to withdraw so we did.
Too much of the church trying to forgive sin when it takes God to do the forgiving. We can forgive our brethern their trespasses but when it comes to adultery, murder, etc, they will have to go to God. That is what is wrong with the churches today trying to have the world in them.

 

[Claudia_T]

Originally posted by DHK:
I think that there will be in heaven people who have held grudges, and have taken those grudges to their grave with them.
The fact is God has given us a promise.

I give unto you eternal life.
It is an unconditional promise.

Not everyone has the luxury of dying slowly on a hospital reminiscing of all the sins they have committed and confessing them to the Lord.
Many die suddenly without notice. Perhaps a heart attack, a car accident, a plane crash, or any number of things that may instantly kill a believer. You may not have time to go and make things right with your enemy. What then? Will God break his promise because of that? Was the thief on the cross able to go back and forgive all those that he wronged before he died and went to paradise?
DHK

But doesnt it seem like it didnt matter with the man who kept building bigger and better barns to store all his stuff?

Luke 12:20: But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?

That makes me think that its just too bad if you happen to die suddenly, doesnt it seem that way to you?

The theif on the cross wouldnt apply here would it? since he was actually sorry for what he had done. He COULDNT come down and make things right with anybody but he was repentant as much as he could be


2Cor:8:12: For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.


Claudia

 

[Claudia_T]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
hmmm Wonder why He said preach the Gospel to every creature? Wonder who they were preaching to and what were they preaching when 3000 souls were saved?

I don't know any christians who commit adultery. I have known a few so-called-christians but the Lord said from such to withdraw so we did.
Too much of the church trying to forgive sin when it takes God to do the forgiving. We can forgive our brethern their trespasses but when it comes to adultery, murder, etc, they will have to go to God. That is what is wrong with the churches today trying to have the world in them.

Brother Bob,

I understand where you are coming from, but sometimes dont people who are in the grasp of satan and under deception and sin need our help and compassion the very most at that time?

Think about the woman caught in adultery that Jesus forgave and the woman at the well who had 5 husbands... Jesus didnt withdraw from her did He?

Claudia

 

[xdisciplex]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
What do you think would happen if a christian commits adultery with another wife and her husband comes home and finds the two in his bed and then shoots them both? What makes you think they are Christians?

So you think that a real christian could never do such a thing?

 

[Brother Bob]

xd;That is right xdisciplex; I don't think a Christian could do such a thing and please don't start quoting me those under the Law Covenant for they did not have the Holy Ghost inward as we do.

Claudia; Sure I think they need our compassion but in my experience they were more interested in the young woman in most cases than any compassion or repentance.
The woman caught in adultery; The Lord told her to go and sin no more. She was not a saved person before.