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Featured What I wish the other side understood

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Pastor_Bob, Apr 3, 2019.

  1. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    @Pastor_Bob , I commend you for starting this thread. I hope you
    You are correct. We are Baptists because of Baptist distinctives.
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Pastor_Bob,

    Labels help cut to the chase. Can every label be an exact fit, no?
    That being said, some in a debate context avoid the label when another person zero's in on their position. This is when the objection is raised and they want to"move the goalpost".
    Rather than admit they have deviated from scripture, they protest that they do not fit into either camp.

    Also, everyone is at different stages of growth, or decline of understanding scripture and need some fine tuning.
     
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  3. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    As to the second clause of your sentence and perchance I am included, I am being honest before all, including the LORD, I do not fit into either camp (RE:Calvin, Arminius).
     
  4. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Hank, if I remember correctly you said you are undecided on Monergism vs. Synergism. Most people are not undecided; they have a definite opinion on one or the other.
     
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  5. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    In this debate, there are no positions on which to zero in. I am definitely not a Calvinist and I strongly oppose some Arminian theology. Thus, the need to understand exactly what the opponent in the debate actually believes if you hope to have a fruitful discussion.

    For example, since I am not a Calvinist, some may conclude that I believe one can lose his salvation. That is simply not true. Some made conclude that, since I am not a "monergist" that I believe I have to work for my salvation. Again, that is just not the truth.

    More times than not, the other side is not even in field goal range when it comes to understanding the position. That is the purpose of this thread.
    Not applicable to many situations. Many of us, in reality, do not fit in either, all the while holding to a strict interpretation of Scripture.

    I agree.
     
  6. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    I am truley undecided about several things within the scope of the Sovereignty of God versus the Responsibility of Man.
    For several years I would vacillate from one to the other however "undecided" relieves the stress from the resultant tension clearing the mind and simply leaving it in God's hands.
     
  7. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    That is not something to be ashamed of. I was in your position for a good period of time as I moved away from Synergism.
     
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  8. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    What I wish the other side understood.

    Cornelius.
     
  9. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    I think it pretty safe to say that those who place high value on utilizing labels for the purpose to impose beliefs and thus conclusions onto their opposition (“synergist”, etc.) stereotypically likewise will demonstrate they value the use of fallacious false dilemmas in their arguments.
     
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  10. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes: Care to explain?
     
  11. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Its a joke, sorta. But I'll start a thread later for it, maybe you give us your take. :Biggrin
     
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    "Pastor_Bob,

    Everyone holds to different twists and turns for many reasons. Some have more training that others, some have more abilities. Sooner or later, everyone fits into a category or under a label.

    Not yet,:Cautious hehe

    [and I strongly oppose some Arminian theology.

    Which sort of says....you agree with alot of it, but take strong exception to past of it,[is that fair]An example, many post here and are Arminian except they plead the Fifth,osos.
    So while posting what is primarily an arminian stance, they make an exception of the 5th
    Agreed
    Agreed
     
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    How about Wales?
     
  14. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I wish "the other side understood" that I am right. :Biggrin Carry on.:Whistling
     
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  15. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    The Presbyterian Church of Wales (formerly the 'Calvinistic Methodists') is now almost entirely apostate, and is in free-fall numerically. The episcopalian Church of Wales is even worse. Most true Christians are found in independent churches which are mostly, though not entirely, baptistic.

    Another thought: whilst the Free Church of Scotland (the 'wee frees') and some other small Presbyterian denominations are theologically sound and keeping their numbers up quite well SFAIK, there is a very welcome growth of Reformed baptist churches in Scotland which is very good to see.

    We have a Sottish Pastor and his wife from a tiny Presby denomination who come to my church each year when they holiday down here. They are super people, but they are always in a dilemma as to whether to join in with our hymns, since their denomination sings only metrical psalms.
     
    #75 Martin Marprelate, Apr 16, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
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  16. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Thank you... sad to see that Wales is post Christian, but where I am in the States (New Jersey) it’s the same thing. :Frown
     
  17. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
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    I have fretted over this topic for years, and most of the time reading comments only led to more confusion.

    I’ve only read 40 posts of this thread, so if the following is mentioned in the rest, please excuse, since I don’t plan to read the remainder, as the more I read the “confuseder” I get.

    However, I just found a book in my bookcase, that I didn’t even know I had, called “hand in Hand” by Randy Alcorn. This book is his attempt to explain the similarities and contradictions of the two camps, and the scripture leading to each conclusion.

    I haven’t read but 4 chapters so far, but I’m already to the point of mostly believing that the real, true, basic differences are the interpretations of verses and terms, rather than a vast valley of conflict that it seems to be.

    Don’t know if it will answer the ultimate question of which is correct, but my leanings are that both are correct. And just because we (or me anyway) cannot reconcile the two “opposites” does not mean that God is not capable of having two truths that are, to us (me) contradictory, to be perfectly harmonious to Him.

    Excellent read so far!:Thumbsup
     
  18. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    They can't both be correct.
     
  19. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Hank, I take you at your word .Many are searching things out and I am searching also. That being said if people comment enough everyone gets a handle on where they are.
     
  20. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    OK I can identify with that but why is that so important to us?
     
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