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What Is a Jew or an Israelite?

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
The future of the Jews is not here now. Right now is the present and tomorrow is the future.
You know what I'm talking about. The Church is the house of David rebuilt.

Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. - Acts 15:14-17
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Can one of this group be considered a Jew if he isn't circumcised?
Yes. A Christian who is an ethnic Jew is still ethnically Jewish. Also, many Jews hold Judaism as a tradition (they are secular Jews).

Israel is a nation set aside for Jewish (ethnic) governance. It is not a theocracy (Arabs also serve in the government).
 

Armchair Apologist

Active Member
You know what I'm talking about. The Church is the house of David rebuilt.

Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. - Acts 15:14-17
I reject replacement theology. The Church (gentiles) does not replace Israel; we are graffed in and included with them. Granted, those who are "Jews Inwardly" are also numbered with those in the Church and in Christ, there is no difference between the Jew and Greek (Rom 10:12) and I take no issue with Jewish believers maintaining their Jewish identity but they also must identify themselves with the Church. I would readily say that the "Israel" we have today is not Israel based upon my understanding of Rom 9:6.

I also reject the "Different people-different destinies" that the rigid classic dispensationalists tout. There is but ONE PEOPLE - God's Elect chosen in him before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4) and to this one people, God shall declare "They shall be my people and I shall be their God" (Rev 21:3).

Now, where we likely disagree is that it seems that you are a partial (orthodox) preterist and I am a historic premillennialist who sees a future role for a revived Israel whom God has raised up from the valley of dry bones (Ez 37) gathered them back to their land from every nation in which they have been scattered and will replace their heart of stone with a heart of flesh (Ez 36:24). I am well aware that some see all of this being fulfilled with their return from exile with Cyrus's decree but the verbiage says out of all countries which to me sounds more like the way they were scattered after 70 AD but we can certainly dispute this point.

Do you believe in Jesus literal, physical return? That he will return in the same manner as he left (Acts 1:11) with his feet touching down on Mount Olivet (Zec 14:1-4; Rev 19:11-21)? Please note that at his return, Israel will be at the focal point and all nations of the earth will be gathered for war against them! Where did this nation come from and who are they? I do not care what your millennial or eschatological position may be, you need to deal with this!
 

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
I reject replacement theology.
"Replacement" theology is a pejorative. The Church is Israel coming of age.

The Church (gentiles) does not replace Israel; we are graffed in and included with them.
And the unbelieving natural branches are cut off, and are not included with us.

Granted, those who are "Jews Inwardly" are also numbered with those in the Church and in Christ, there is no difference between the Jew and Greek (Rom 10:12) and I take no issue with Jewish believers maintaining their Jewish identity but they also must identify themselves with the Church. I would readily say that the "Israel" we have today is not Israel based upon my understanding of Rom 9:6.
You seem to make a distinction between Christians and those who are "Jews Inwardly." Are you saying the believing Greek was not a Jew inwardly? That his heart wasn't circumcised? What does it mean then to be grafted into the Olive Tree?

You need to describe what you mean by "Jewish identity." Is it the keeping of the law? The observance of days and feasts? (which is a keeping of the law) How does one maintain a "Jewish identity" outside the law or their rabbinical traditions?

The Israel™ today is not the Israel of the Bible, nor is it the Israel of Judaism. It is identity theft to call themselves that. That's why I use the little tradmark sign when of the Zionist state.

I also reject the "Different people-different destinies" that the rigid classic dispensationalists tout. There is but ONE PEOPLE - God's Elect chosen in him before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4) and to this one people, God shall declare "They shall be my people and I shall be their God" (Rev 21:3).

Now, where we likely disagree is that it seems that you are a partial (orthodox) preterist and I am a historic premillennialist who sees a future role for a revived Israel whom God has raised up from the valley of dry bones (Ez 37) gathered them back to their land from every nation in which they have been scattered and will replace their heart of stone with a heart of flesh (Ez 36:24). I am well aware that some see all of this being fulfilled with their return from exile with Cyrus's decree but the verbiage says out of all countries which to me sounds more like the way they were scattered after 70 AD but we can certainly dispute this point.
Judaism was destroyed in 70 AD, not scattered. God wasn't done with the Jews in Diaspora, but He is now. The true Temple has been built. God tore down His old house, and has moved in to His new one. Messiah has come. The true High Priest has offered the true Sacrifice. He's not coming again for the Jews. They missed it.

The Gospel came to the Jews first. Jews from all over the known world were in Jerusalem, and heard the Gospel in their native tongues. 3000 of them believed and took the news back home with them. God has regathered His people. He made a New Covenant with them, and He wrote His law on the hearts. And Christ has received the nations as His inheritance.

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Do you believe in Jesus literal, physical return? That he will return in the same manner as he left (Acts 1:11)
Yes, and we will meet Him in the air.

with his feet touching down on Mount Olivet (Zec 14:1-4; Rev 19:11-21)?
No, you're confusing covenants.

Please note that at his return, Israel will be at the focal point and all nations of the earth will be gathered for war against them!
If you're proceding from the Revelation, it's said the nations will be gathered for war against the saints. Not the Jews.

Where did this nation come from and who are they? I do not care what your millennial or eschatological position may be, you need to deal with this!
What nation? The Holy Nation? Christ birthed that nation on the Cross.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
LOL, I'll promise you no Jew receives an uncircumcised man as a Jew, and no Christian is received either.
Receives? I think we are talking about two different things. I was not talking about Judiasm but about ethnic Jews.

Sorry. I thought I indicated "ethnic" in my post.

Take Israel, for example. In Israel there are Jews who are circumcised and uncircumcised. There are Jews who are Christians, who practice Judiasm, and who are secular. They are all Jewish (ethnically... they all are biological descendants from one or more of the twelve tribes of Israel). Most Jews are circumcised. Most are secular Jews (tradition rather than strict adherence).

A Jewish (ethnic) Christian (faith) in Israel is considered Jewish (ethnic) and if of age has to serve in the military. They are considered Jewish (ethnic) by law.

An uncircumcised Jew in Israel (ethnic and religious) is considered Jewish by law.


Jews do not walk down the streets of Israel shouting "drop your drawers!".
 
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