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What is Dispensationalism?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by John of Japan, Jan 12, 2018.

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  1. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Prove to me that only dispensationalists use the term.

    In dispensationalism, the church is peculiar to the time following Pentecost. There were no churches in any previous dispensation or era. As Baptists, we believe that local churches have: baptism, the Lord's supper, meetings on Sunday, membership, a Great Commission, pastors and deacons, evangelists and missionaries, etc. None of these existed in any previous dispensation or age (even believers' baptism is different from John's.). Therefore, the church age is certainly not an "artificial construction," but one planned by God, even if you are not aware of it.
    And we agree thus far. But God has not cast away His chosen people, the nation of Israel. (Paul said that.)
    I never denied that there were soteriological points in the passages I mentioned. But surely you believe that your church is the body of Christ, don't you? If not, you are ignoring plain Scriptures.
    Wow. I wish I knew the intention of God throughout the ages as clearly as you seem to.:rolleyes: (Alert: this is sarcasm.) Because Gen. 12:3 certainly does not give all of God's intention towards the Jews. One verse could not possibly contain everything about so exalted and wonderful a subject.
     
  2. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    No I am not, I am rightly dividing.. They are one. When presented as their King of Israel they called ''''
    • Matthew 21:9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
    They recognised Jesus as the son of David, and as King so he could only be king on David's throne.

    • John 12:9 Much people of the Jews therefore knew that he was there: and they came not for Jesus' sake only, but that they might see Lazarus also, whom he had raised from the dead.
    • 10But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death;
    • 11Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.
    • 12On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
    • 13Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
    • 14And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,
    • 15Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.
    • 16These things understood not his disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things unto him.
    • 17The people therefore that was with him when he called Lazarus out of his grave, and raised him from the dead, bare record.
    • 18For this cause the people also met him, for that they heard that he had done this miracle.
    • 19The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him.
    • 20And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast:
    • 21The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus.
    • 22Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus.
    • 23And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
    • 24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
    • 25He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
    • 26If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
    Many Jews accepted Jesus as their king, and from then He was sitting on the throne of David,

    I would like John to answer a question and all dispensationalists (there I wrote it in full) :
    Do you believe that OT saints will be raised at the time when Christ will descend and we meet Him in the air, or at some other time?
     
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  3. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. Jn 10

    14 For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition,
    15 having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace; Eph 2

    13 For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit. 1 Cor 12

    ???
     
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  4. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    This doesn't answer my point, which was that the Kingdom of God and David's throne are two different things.

    But Christ clearly rejected the earthly kingdom at that time, and did not take the throne of David, which is a physical manifestation, not a spiritual one. You are suggesting without proof that the throne of David is internal and spiritual, and not an actual kingdom. That's not how Christ viewed it. He did not correct the disciples's view that there was a physical kingdom coming. And I'm sure David would have been surprised to learn that he did not have a physical throne. :Cautious

    Acts 1:6 "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power."


    Yes, at the rapture.
     
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  5. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Six Hour Warning
    This thread will be closed sometime after 5 PM Pacific.
     
  6. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    awww,

    Does it really have to be?

    It has been a great thread, no animosity, tremendous sharing of the Scriptures, and truly enjoyably edifying.

    But, thanks for the warning.
     
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  7. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    :Rolleyes That would be impossible to do without reading every single word ever written on the subject. However, I am not altogether unread and I cannot recall anyone other than a Dispensationalist using the term a priori. Reformed folk and others have used it in response, of course.
    It is not the Church (capital 'C') that is an artificial construction, but the idea of a 'church age' that appears and then will disappear. At the risk of experiencing the ire of my Fundamentalist brethren, I do not believe that baptism etc. are of the essence of the Church. The Church is the Bride of Christ-- God's people throughout the ages, looking forward to the Seed of the woman crushing the serpent's head. It is true that they did not band together in churches until after Pentecost, but they are one people (Hebrews 12:1) and will congregate together at the Last day (Isaiah 25:6-9; Revelation 7:9ff).
    Indeed not! There is a remnant saved by grace (Paul said that too).
    [QOTE]I never denied that there were soteriological points in the passages I mentioned. But surely you believe that your church is the body of Christ, don't you? If not, you are ignoring plain Scriptures.[/QUOTE]
    Indeed it is. But the texts you gave were soteriological. The Church is in the first place soteriological, not ecclesiological or eschatological (enough long words already!)
    I wish you did too. :p (Alert, this is also sarcasm).
    I did not say it did. I cited it as the first such verse. I shall be preaching on Isaiah 42 next week and refer you to vs.6-9, but there are dozens of such verses. The mystery that was hidden from ages and generations (though clearly adumbrated in the O.T.) is the coming in of the Gentiles to make one new man in Christ Jesus (Colossians 1:25-29; Ephesians 2:11-18).

    A new thread on God's purposes in the Mosaic Covenant might prove interesting. :Cool
     
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  8. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Sometimes it seems that some forget this statement in Romans, as it concerns the future:
    Romans 11

    28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
    Only in the millennium will such fulfillment take place.
     
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  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, the big difference is that He will no longer allow/permit sin and evil to run on the earth, as he will establish a direct dominion over the earth and all that will cease!
     
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  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, for the Kingdom right now is still in building stage, and will be complete when the King arrives to reign directly over it!
     
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  11. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    An aspect that some miss when considering the millennial reign is that the rebellious heart is unchanged.

    Though the forces of Satan and even that enemy is shackled, the heart of humankind is corrupt, and hence the rod of iron rule.
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, as King Jesus will enforce His reign by being a Benevolent Dictator!
     
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  13. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    While this may be generally true, there are a fair number of dispensational premillennialists among Baptists who hold that the church began in the ministry of Christ rather than on the day of Pentecost.
     
  14. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    Agreed - because the millennium is NOW - the present Gospel age - not in the future after Jesus' return. .
     
  15. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Agree!
     
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  16. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    This is true.
     
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Of course your scripture proof is on the way. ...
     
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  18. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    In this we disagree.

    This is the age called Grace.

    A time characterized by a suffering assembly that examples the suffering Saviour.

    However, in that millennium there is no such condition in which the church ever suffers but rules and reigns WITH Him.

    Where now He is to rule and be the Lord in the life of believers, at that time in the millennial He will be Lord and King of all even the earthly Kings.
     
  19. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Psalm 72
     
  20. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    It took me a very brief search, maybe just one minute, to find this website that both believes in and claims the name "replacement theology": Replacement Theology, supersessionism: Christians are God's Jews. The church is true Israel.

    You are not addressing my point, which is that there are many things that are peculiar to this age that did not exist before. Therefore, something is peculiar to the age of grace, and the is the local church. (l'm not interested in a "universal church" doctrine.) Since these things exist in this age, but not others, that is the proof I offer that the local church is peculiar to this age. That is what I mean by the church age. To disprove my point, you must prove that the things I mentioned existed in local assemblies before Christ, who instituted the local church.

    Huh? The "body of Christ," the local church (all of those NT statements on the body of Christ were to local churches) is not ecclesiological? That's one of the strangest statements ever made on the BB.

    I'm a local church guy. The "universal church" has not ever met, and that's what an ekklesia does: meet. My points have been from the local church viewpoint, which is what I mean when I say "Church Age." Until you address that view, you have not answered my points.
    Okay. That discussion will wait for another day.

    Yes it might.:)
     
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