Well. I see what you are saying friend. Never was I taught that pleasing God did help assist Him, neither had I ever concluded this, nor presumed this. When you say that I was taught that practice assured position, you are clearly in error there, that is not the case whatsoever. As a matter of fact, not one IFB church that I am aware of would ever teach or say such a thing. To lay this upon me and assume this is unfortunate.
When I was IFB, keep in mind, I was called a liberal. I did not adhere to the KJVO, women/pants....all other Hyles-esque doctrines. None of the churches I pastored were like this. When a speaker came to the church, he had to really preach expositorily, because if he came with a sugar-stick sermon that would draw "amens" by droves in IFB legalistic types, my people wouldn't get it nor understand it. These though are some of many reasons why I am not IFB. Also, I affiliated with men like this, but was never "one of them." Thus, you err when you assume I was taught to do all of this to assure position. Not so. Not even close. Never did I, nor will I, nor have I felt this way. That is plain and simply heresy.
The thing that shocks me is persons inability to distinguish between positional holiness, that takes place immediately at salvation, and practicing of holiness, which is in itself distinct, and separate, and does not add to. Nor can it add to the work of what He and He alone has done. This is why, and only on a few posts, that people have attacked this. They can't make nor do they see the distinguishing factor, which by the way, I knew would happen, and is my whole entire point in making this.
What I am getting at is doing what pleases God after salvation. Before we go running to "there is nothing we can do to please God" we should look at Scripture, as it teaches those who already are saved, can, and do in fact please God by obeying His commands. Not for salvation, as I feel I must reiterate this to you.
The thing is, those who are His keep His commands, they do what is pleasing to Him. They walk with Him. They purify themselves from sin that destroys fellowship by being close to Him. They separate themselves from certain things, as in I Cor. 6. They do Romans 12:1, because of what He has done, in recognition of this. Using we can't be perfect as an excuse is a scapegoat.
My point is, these things are not taught, and they are all throughout the NT as imperatives to believers, and todays Christian, for the most part is not detectable as any different from the world or the lost, there is no light or very little, and I believe 1 Peter is very clear that we (Christians, already saved) are to be holy, to practice it as it is a command to the born again.
What is holiness, and where is it today?
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by preacher4truth, Dec 8, 2010.
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I practice personal holiness and am walking with God.
8 vote(s)57.1% -
Personal holiness is a farce, I don't worry about my walk.
0 vote(s)0.0% -
I need to get some things right with God in my walk regarding this.
3 vote(s)21.4% -
Holiness does not need to be preached. Live however you wish.
0 vote(s)0.0% -
I used to walk close to God in holiness before Him, and have slipped.
1 vote(s)7.1% -
Holiness is important and the church needs to hear this preached.
9 vote(s)64.3% -
I know I am better used of God when I walk before Him in cautious holiness.
9 vote(s)64.3% -
Bible knowledge has voided this doctrine and it is not relevant to believers.
0 vote(s)0.0% -
I am free and can and do live however I want and I don't believe in seperation or holiness.
0 vote(s)0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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As far as "preaching expositionally" I'd have to see a sermon manuscript to decide if what was preached was indeed "expositional" preaching or something other. Many believe that they preach "expositionally" when in fact what is happening is they are making points, then saying, "See, the Bible agrees with me... See this and this and this and this verse?" That is not expositional preaching, it is topical, because the sermon is derived from the mind of the preacher not driven by the text. I'm NOT saying that is what happened in the IFB church where you were, as I said above, I'd have to see a sermon manuscript to know that -- but in the IFB and IFB-type churches I've attended, that was the pattern. It is also the style of preachers trained at Liberty and in the system that Liberty teaches, which is widely copied in the Fundamentalist world (though Liberty has now aligned with the SBC).
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OK. I wondered if you were in this to argue for arguings sake, when you threw in the midst of this, from another thread, an argument about higher education, stating this:
Of course Scripture doesn't deal with woman and pants. That's a given. But they would beg to differ. It's taken and applied from an OT Scripture that states it as an abomination for a woman and man to wear one anothers attire, then applied to today, wrongly. I don't have the passage.
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I believe that most have misunderstood what walking in the Spirit really means. For me it is a submission to the Holy Spirit. It is surrender to the Lords will. If we can do that then we are in pursuit of holiness. You see if Christ is living my life for me. My flesh cannot attain any greater holiness.
Submission to the will of Christ is the only way to achive true holiness, (In my humble opinion) because it leaves no room for our ego to step in and claim the credit.
For me the best way is always God's way.
You are right about being commanded to be holy Yet for me being perfect is the holiness God had with Abram.
Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
We are also commanded to be perfect
Deu 18:13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
(Please note we are perfect with the Lord.)
For me the best I can do is to step aside and let God live my life for me. The " Me, Myself, and I" will only make a mess of things.
MB -
I am trying to understand you, yet don't understand where you get the concept that Christ is living your life for you. Paul said he lived his life by the faith of the Son of God..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Galtians 5:20. I don't understand how you say He is living it for you. How did you do this? I just don't feel He took us over completely.
You're right, you cannot gain any greater holiness positionally. But, a person can be "holier than thou." This is not in positional holiness, however. Yet, a person could be walking with God, close to God, another may be in rebellion. One is concecrated and separated, or holy, with God, the other, only positionally, and my illustration is they are both born again. So, we can all achieve greater holiness, but only in the biblical sense of the word, not in the Webster idea.
Perfect here means with integrity, to be an entire person, perfect is only a subpoint of the definition to help us grasp it. It doesn't mean perfect in our sense of perfection, or in the fact that God alone is perfect, and the only perfect. God would not call us to be something we cannot be, yet He does call us to be saved, something we cannot do, but only through Him.
Brother, God does not desire to live your life for you, but in you and through you, through Christ. All of this talk is helping me sharpen the biblical concept of what holiness is and to understand where people are coming from when it is discussed, since we presuppose we are on the same page. So a very basic theology on holiness, it's different aspects and definitions needs to be grasped.
Thanks again! -
"nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me" This is how Christ lives our life for us. We completely submit to His rule. To His righteousness. We allow Him to have the final word in everything The height of His rule is in How deep our surrender of every thing in our life, to Him is. If He doesn't have complete control of our life it's because we haven't given it to Him.
Many desire to be holy. The only way is to be completely surrendered to Him.
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
I believe Christ meant we are to be as perfect as God the Father.
MB
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