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What is Lordship Salvation?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reformed, Dec 30, 2017.

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  1. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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  2. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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  3. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I got mine. It says I am very spiritual and have logged 7800 steps so far today. Oh! Gotta go. It's telling me it is prayer time. I have to bow towards Geneva.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
     
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  4. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    I can't believe refreshing baptistboard.com doesn't count. That need to push that in the next firmware update.
    :Roflmao
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    This is where Lordship salvation seems to have a real issue, for how much and how soon we must give all to Jesus in order to make real our salvation?
     
  6. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    One never can be certain. That's the fatal flaw in LS. I am the fatal flaw in LS. The law is perfect. I am not.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    true, for when we ever shift out focus off what Jesus has done to what I am supposed to be now doing....
     
  8. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    Read HankD's post #64 which I agree with. It's not about what we do but who we are. The fruit of Grace is as good a measure of that as anything. As Christ said, "Abide in Me and I will abide in you." If we follow Him our lives will be changed, our lifestyle will be changed and our deeds will be changed.
     
  9. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    You are complicating things. LS does not teach that we need to "make real our salvation". LS is about being a disciple of Jesus Christ and bearing fruit. It is not about inspecting another's progress. All those who are making accusations that LS is about "fruit inspecting" have missed the point. Perhaps there are some who are running around peering into the lives of others, inspecting their actions to see if they are real disciples. If they are doing that they have some real problems and need professional help. We are all on different levels vis-a-vis our level of sanctification (i.e. where we are in our Christian journey). But even though we are all different, we are all disciples and no disciple is ever called to do nothing. Jesus said that if we are His disciples we will love one another (JN 13:35). In that instance, love is a verb. It is also a mark of a disciple. That really is LS in nutshell. You become a disciple the moment you are born again. Even in that fledgling state you are learning and doing; you are exercising faith. If a professed convert has zero interest in the things of God, and that continues for an indefinite period, should we not be concerned about the genuineness of their profession?
     
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  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    How much sin can you still hold onto and practice?
    Which of the 10 commandments are no longer in effect?
     
  11. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Fruit inspecting is an inescapable consequence of your theology.
     
  12. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    Isn't this the question that the rich young ruler brought to Jesus? He wanted eternal salvation but wasn't willing to make Jesus the lord of his life. Money was the lord of his life. He went away sorrowful because he had great possessions. The same question is asked of us. What is the lord of our lives? Is it money, power, politics, our intellect even our family? Jesus told us that we must pick up our cross and follow Him. That's making Jesus Lord.
     
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  13. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I sometimes wonder what was going through the Apostle's mind when he wrote:

    Romans 7:14-24 14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

    21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

    I find myself agreeing with the Apostle. I battle with sin every single day. When I was younger I would try to see if I could go at least one day without sin. If I could do that I thought I could get a streak going and maybe, possibly, stop sinning. It was a foolish attempt, to be sure. I was looking at my response to sin the wrong way. It is not about gritting my teeth and facing sin head-on. If I approach sin in that way I am doomed to failure. There is nothing I can do; or more appropriately, nothing I can do in my own power to resist sin. The power I possess is that of the Holy Spirit who is at work in me, to conform me to the image of Christ. Through the Spirit, I am to consider myself dead to sin (Rom. 6:11). But how can I do that when I still sin? That is the part that so vexed me. Well, the Apostle does not leave us hanging. He goes on to write in verse 14, "For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace." What is he telling me? He is telling me that I am not under a Law of blessing and cursing like ritualistic Judaism; a law that no man could ever keep. I am under grace. All my sins, past, present, and future were paid for by the Son of God who died and was punished on my behalf, "and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me" (Gal. 2:20).

    So were do works enter into this? They do not in the way LS opponents think that we view them. Because we are under grace we are free to live as a disciple without the crushing weight of judgment. Our sin can still welcome the discipline of the Lord, but we are no longer treated as covenant-breakers, as transgressors. We are free to serve God. In fact, we have a heart that wants to serve Him. There is no greater calling for the Christian than to be of service to Him who died for us.

    Lordship Salvation would be better understood if it was called Discipleship Salvation. We are called to be disciples. Show me the person who refutes that statement and I will show you a person who does not understand the Gospel. I repeat. Show me the person who refutes that statement (that we are called to be disciples) and I will show you a person who does not understand the Gospel. A disciple is a follower. A follower is someone who follows. Followers do not just say "I will follow you" and then sit on the sofa eating bonbons all day. Followers actually do something...they follow. During Jesus' earthly ministry His disciples literally followed him. The physically walked with him. They ate what He ate. They slept where He slept. They witnessed His miracles. They ministered in His name. Their discipleship was a kinetic discipleship. We are called to do the same. The Great Commission did not stress decisions for Christ. Interesting, is it not? The Great Commission stressed disciples. Matthew 28:19-20, "19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” These replicated disciples were to be taught to observe all that Jesus commanded His original disciples. Observe? Keep or do. Act like a disciple. And the thing is that if you are a disciple you will act like one. One begets the other. Yeah. OK. If you want to bring up the thief on the cross as an example of someone who never had the opportunity to do good works, go ahead and try. That is a softball easily hit out of the park. A mark of a disciple is that he has repented and believed in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 17:30). The dying thief certainly did that (Luke 23:43).

    Anthony, forgive the morning rant, but I got on a roll! Have a blessed day.
     
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  14. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    With all due respect, Jesus is Lord whether we recognize it or not. Jesus does not become Lord when we decide He is Lord. He has always been Lord and will always be Lord. Jesus saw the true spiritual condition of the young ruler's heart; and while it was ruled by covetous over what he possessed, his real problem was unbelief.
     
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  15. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    We will agree to disagree on that point. Jesus did look at the condition of the ruler's heart and that's why He asked that particular question. He could see that this man's stumbling block was his wealth. But I believe that the ruler had free will to change. In his case that was extremely difficult because wealth is a very difficult thing to give up to accept Christ as Lord.
     
  16. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Two questions:

    1) Would the RYR have been saved from God's wrath had he sold everything he owned and gave it to the poor?

    2) Are you saying that it is a necessary prerequisite of salvation to change one's behavior prior to coming to Christ?
     
    #116 thatbrian, Jan 4, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
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  17. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    Looking at these two posts, I have to ask: What was the reason for posting this thread in the Cal-Arm debate forum?
     
  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    John Owen identified the power to mortify sin as what Jesus spoke of in John 7:37-39 with the indwelling Spirit as a source of power to obey scriptural directives. God does not leave us without the ability to obey and work spiritually following after holiness in the life.
     
  19. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Because LS is often lumped in with Calvinism.

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  20. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    Sure, others may do the lumping, but even before this thread I could think of more than a few posters whose views on Cal-Arm didn't predicate their views on LS-FG.
     
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