DHK, surely you must know that one cannot "choose" to believe something when he believes something else. So how can I "refuse to believe"?</font>[/QUOTE]Many who smoke choose to smoke, though they believe smoking is wrong. They believe in their right to smoke, even though they know it is wrong.
Many who deny the truths of the Word of God, do so in spite of the fact that they know they are true. Belief comes from the heart, out of a conviction of the Holy Spirit, as well as a conviction of the mind. Christianity has both of these aspects to it. I do not believe with blind faith, mindlessly, like many of the cults do. My faith is built on an intellectual understanding of the Word of God, plus a guiding and conviction of the Holy Spirit.
DHK
What is the Bible?
Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Rev. Joshua, Aug 19, 2002.
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Warm Christian greetings!
The views promoted by the likes of Mr Villines, Mr "Post-it" and Mr David Cooke do not, in and of themselves, disturb me because I've heard them all before, and I believe the Lord will deal with these people in His own time, and His own way. (My hope and prayer is that He will deal with them unto repentance rather than unto judgement).
However, what does concern me deeply is the following: Let's just say that young, newly converted Christians start to go into the BB with a view to being built up in their "most holy faith". If they come across the views promoted by these "christians" mentioned just now, what do you think will happen to them? The comments made could seriously undermine their faith, and even put them off altogether. Bearing in mind the warning the Bible gives about not causing "one these little ones that believe in me to stumble" the likes of Mr Villines and his cohorts could well find themselves with blood on their hands. They could find, on the judgement day that Christ condemns them for leading young believers astray.
In the light of this I would appeal to these people to take a moment to reflect on the possible consequences of their actions.
Kind regards
Robert J Hutton -
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Should a Homo be alowed to stay in a church if he doesn't accept Christ and change?
Churches are not just for the saved, they're also for the lost. As far as homosexuality, why single out one sin? Our churches are filled with persons who have not repented of sins like cheating on taxes, breaking the speed limit, putting down false times on timecards, yet they are allowed to remain.
But, if you're going to bar practicing homosexuals from church, then you'll have to bar all people practicing fornication. You'll find that most people who fornicate are heterosexuals, not homosexuals.
Regardless, if you bar every sinner from church, you'll have an empty church. -
[ August 22, 2002, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: David Cooke, Jr. ] -
Here is the fallacy of your thoughts. First, to cause someone to stumble would not apply to stating ones beliefs about the Bible as a saved individual. Otherwise every Church in the world is cause those who don't follow it's beliefs to stumble.
Your fear is what caused the Catholic Church to dominate the interpretation before we individuals decided to read it for ourselves and reject the Catholic Church's doctrine. You wouldn't be a Baptist today if that had not happened.
Now that we have our "Religion" established again, you are saying lets not let the members see what scripture says or could be interepreted to say. Your view would take us back at least 1000 years if the Church adopted it.
A well armed Christian with knowledge of what scripture says, can't fall prey to other false religions. Let them hear and develop their own opinion with the guidence of the Holy Spirit. This is what our Faith is based on Robert. -
Well said Post it.
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post-it:
The consequences of our actions? How about that non-Christians will see that you don't have to buy into a narrow set of beliefs about scripture to believe in the good news of Jesus Christ, >>
Strange, but that is what I was refering to when I said.....making it sound like some good icecream. Nothing else matters except the icecream. Just leave all the rest out like repenting from being a homosexual, murder, rapist, etc.. There are some very serious sins, such as these, meaning that if you do not change, then you haven't truly accepted Jesus for the guilt of these would make you want to change immediately. Also to the person who said church was ok for sinners: OK for SAVED sinners! God's church is made up of CHRISTIANS. Those who are not, are of the world. Yes, you are right about many that are lost going to church BUT when it is obvious that a person is still committing murder, then that person should be in prision, not in a Christian church. You cannot pick out all the time an individual who is leading a double life, but when you do find out, that person should be asked to repent or leave God's church. Would you say ok to a murderer to stay in your church just because he said he is a Christian? I would think not, but I've been wrong many times in the past and present. The same applies to the others! Yes, I am a sinner, but a saved one and I have repented of ALL major sins(no I wasn't one that I listed), one of which was drinking alcholic drinks. It's been over 20 years now. Read the OT about how God felt about the ones I listed. By His punishment I would believe that they were not welcome while still in that state of a lifestyle. Boy, the icecream sounds good!
God Bless............Alex -
Alex,
Prosecuting murderers and rapists is what I do for a living. I don't know where you got the idea that I'm for icecream religion and against accountability, but it wasn't from me. -
I have only made a case for sinners that are committing non-harmful sins... like, lying to your wife about how thin she looks; lying to your husband about what a great lover and listener he is; :D , Homosexuality (if you consider that a sin), cheating on taxes, eating too much, lusting after women, being a lawyer or stock broker (well maybe these sometime do harm others more than we think ;) ) (not you David ), not honoring your parents, etc. These are the same type of sins that Paul admitted he still continued to do knowing he shouldn't.
[ August 22, 2002, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: post-it ] -
I think the reason I was so harsh with him was that I assumed by one of his posts, that he was far too liberal and thus far from what I feel is bibically correct. I still will hold my position about homosexuals that continue with their life style and go to church with ALL knowing this. Kida would give younger persons the wrong idea about salvation and repentance.
I put them on the same level as a rapist......if you don't quit, you are not a Christian and should not be allowed in a church WHICH is supposed to be Christians. Sure, I would give them a fair amount of time after conseling them about being a Christian pertaining to their un-Godly lifestlye but after that..go away until you repent if you were ever a God fearing pair. God created man and woman for a reason and it sure isn't to be Gay! That is straying too far from the topic, so I will end it here but I do expect a few responses to my position. :D
God Bless............Alex -
Robert J Hutton,
Sir I am in total agreement with you. I made this comment on a different thread.
We should be very concerned about new christians. And they do post here, and there are some really young christian teens here also.
I really worry about this.
Sherrie -
I know your heart is in the right place as a Christian but I would think that most who visit this site are old enough to understand what is going on and thus can make a proper choice as all on here(church members), have good points as per their particular denomination. To "hold back" anything that is scriptural is really not fair to those who are seeking the truth as they may not attend a church or read the bible. The reason this site is so popular, is because of the wide range of beliefs and topics that are sometimes heavely debated. I have learned a great deal here at age 65 and wish that I would have had something like this while a teenager as I am sure it would have made my Christian life that much closer to God. But, we are individuals, with different approaches on what should or should not be posted. So far, the Moderators have done a great job dealing with debates that get too bad and vicious. I think this one is doing fine, but again, that's my opinion. After all, the topic is "what is the Bible", so it follows that we will have a great deal of personal differences to deal with. ;)
God Bless..............Alex -
My Bible is the God breathed Word of God…… The bread of life….
II Timothy 3:16-17
For feelings come and feelings go,
And feelings are deceiving;
My warrant is the Word of God
Nought else is worth believing.
I’ll trust in God’s unchanging Word
Till soul and body sever:
For, though all things shall pass away,
His Word shall stand forever.
THIS BOOK contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.
READ IT TO BE WISE, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you. It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword, and a Christian charter. Here paradise is restored, Heaven is opened, and the gates of hell disclosed.
CHRIST IS THE GRAND SUBJECT, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart, and guide the feet.
READ IT SLOWLY, frequently, prayerfully. It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure. It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgement, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, will reward the greatest labor, and condemns all that trifle with its sacred contents. –Priscilla Howe
[ August 22, 2002, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: Graceforever ] -
Grace -
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So, David, what did you mean by the following?:
How about that non-Christians will see that you don't have to buy into a narrow set of beliefs about scripture to believe in the good news of Jesus Christ, >> :confused:
God Bless........Alex -
Page 1 post says that some dudes sitting around a campfire--started writing it all down!! Well, there's a lot of smoke clouding Villines' spiritual eyes--it would do him well if he got off of his perch--moved to a spot where the smoke will be downwind--he'll not tear up so bad and have that terrible hackin' spiritual cough!!
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A Bible believing church who sees itself as the body of Christ would not allow it's members to form a habitual lifestyle of sin. We, as the church, have a ministry of edification, building up of one another, restoration. I don't see how allowing habitual sin (like a cancer) stay in the body and cause death and destruction.
suzanne -
Habitual sinners like Gluttony, smoking shouldn't be kicked out either. If the sin does no harm to others, then they should be allowed to stay in the Church. They certainly are still Christian. Kicking them out could cause them to stumble. And most likely will!!!
Rapist, killers, child molestors/ex-priests, who turn christian should not be allowed in Family Churches even after they have come out of prison. They need to form their own church and go there. But we are never to say that these people aren't Christians after they confess Jesus, we just shouldn't be stupid and open our doors to them. God can love them in their own church.
He says forgive, not forget and pretend it didn't happen.
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