So which one of the 12 was not an Apostle? Paul, Peter, John one of the others since their were to only be 12 Apostles per scripture which one did Junia replace?
What is the role of women in the Church?
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by following-Him, Feb 27, 2012.
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Never home schooled my children, know people that do and most of the time the mom and dad are both involved in the teaching of the children. My point was he is to teach the spiritual things and be the spiritual head of that home. Women are to stand beside him and help in those things not be a footstool for him to walk all over. They teach the children and the elder women teach the younger women all this is laid out in Paul's teaching. She is just not to teach the men plain and simple scripture says it and it is proven out in scripture. -
Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Obviously the 12 men were apostles and we are all aware of this. However, and I may be wrong, I do not know that the NT says there were only 12. The twelve were special, that is a certainty. Also, we do not know that after his resurrection that Jesus did not include others in his inner circle as apostles.
There may be other writings from that time that speak of other disciples. I am not sure about that. However, when the canon was set it was set by men and it is possible they did not include some books that were inspired, but for political or cultural reasons the priests, monks, etc. did not include them as they wanted women "put in their place" and in their opinion women were not to be considered in any as equal to men.
That might make a good thread for general discussion. -
Well let's ee:
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb
This verse apparently says the twelve apostles of the lamb, their names will be on the twelve foundations of the New Jerusalem. So will Junia be there? Will it Matthias or Paul.
12 tribes, twelve apostles chosen by Christ 11 of which became apostles and Paul the 12th.
Ishmael even had 12 princes.
Matthew 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel
Which 12 will judge the 12 tribes of Israel.
Scripture is very clear their are and have only been 12 Apostles of which Paul became the 12th and there is no scriptural back up that says that Junia nor Andonicus were apostles it says they were marked by or of note amoung them.
1 Corinthians 9:1 Am I am not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?
We don't know if they even met this qualification.
Notice Paul said the proof of his Apostleship was that he had seen Jesus Christ our Lord, He had see the risen Lord on the road to Damascus. Not one person today can make that claim and therefore no one qualifies as an Apostle, because no one in our time has seen the Risen Lord. For He is seated at the right hand of the Father making intercession for us and waiting on the Father to make His enemies His footstool. -
Today that same church has less people than it did then. -
Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
As for Paul saying his proof was he had seen Jesus then it lends support to what I have been saying there may have been more who could be called apostles. Many, many followers had seen Jesus. Junia probably was one of them.
It is an article of faith unprovable either way IMHO. -
According to the Greek we have episEmoi for noted which means notable, en=Amoung, tois = the, apostolois = apostles. So Andonicus and Junia were notable amoung the apostles, the Greek proves it out and says nothing about thenm being apostles but they were notable amoung them. People seem to try to read their interpretation into this, but the Textus Receptus Greek to English bears it out, they were notable amoung the Apostles. A bit like Will Rogers was a notable speaker amoung the Senators but was not a Senator he held no specific office. My dad was notable amoung the church I grew up in but never held an office in it. That is what Paul was saying of Andronicus and Junia. -
"Director" seems to be a popular euphemism for these 'gender gospel' folks to assign a women leader. Their dogma/traditions just won't let them use 'pastor' with her.
Also "administrator" and "coordinator" LOL -
Why does it seem that those who CANNOT produce ONE verse to support ordaining women as pastors in churches feel that the Apostles. jesus, God were male biased against women, they looked down women as being "inferior' to men? -
Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I do believe that early priests, monks, etc. made considerable efforts to limit our knowledge of what women did who were contemporaries and followers of Jesus. I have read this, but as I am not an expert in this area I have to go on what I have read and what makes sense. We know that many women were believers and important during the years of Jesus' ministry on earth. I wish we had more writings on his life.
By the way, I really like Will Rogers.
One of my heroes who is still living is Will Campbell. -
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RevWMC, how's about doing one of your famous 'word studies' on apostle in Acts 14:14?
Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, -
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Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Other apostles in the New Testament
Barnabas ... Acts 14:14
Andronicus and Junia Rom 16:7
Silas 1 Thes. 1:1 and 2:6
Timothy 1 Thes. 1:1 and 2:6
Apollos 1 Cor. 4:9 [Apollos is included when this is read in context.
So we know there were other apostles other than the 12. My guess is we do not have all their names, so we do not know just how many there were.
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specifically applied to the twelve apostles of Christ
in a broader sense applied to other eminent Christian teachers
of Barnabas
of Timothy and Silvanus
In this case Paul and Barnanbus had been sent out as messenger or delgates of the Chruch. However the term used in the passage with Andronicus and Junia says they were notble amoung the Apostolos.
Hope it helps. -
Huh?
I thought their were to only be twelve apostles per Scripture.
Which one did Barnabas replace? -
Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Also could you explain your pronouncement that it's fine for women to teach Scripture to teenaged young men?
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