I do not think of you as "Freewillers", but a certain group calls you that. If "freewillers" are wrong and they continue their message what effect will it have on the elect?
If "freewillers" are right and they stop their message what effect will it have on the world?
What will happen if "Freewillers" continue their message?
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by psalms109:31, Feb 16, 2010.
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just-want-peace Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
1 none!
2 lots of folk will never come to Christ that otherwise would!
This, of course, is assuming "freewill" means that man has a choice to accept/reject His word and offer of salvation. -
Indeed, the "risk" of harm being caused is much greater if the Calvinists are in error, which is NOT proof of their being wrong, nor is it even an appeal for them to abandon what they believe to be true. Truth is truth regardless of it's perceived effects. However, if nothing else, it should cause them to tread all the more carefully and study all the more diligently about these matters.
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#2 A lot of people will never hear the truth
I believe the interpretation of the term freewillers is misunderstood even by the freewillers themselves. Every man has freewill yet no one choses Christ, rather we are chosen by Him first. This choosing is not election. Christ chose to die for the whole world. The whole world isn't elect but it is able to respond to the gospel.
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
It isn't Christ the freewiller chooses but, rather whether or not to rebel when he hears the gospel. We become convinced by hearing the truth of the gospel and it is the truth of the gospel that takes us to our knees in submission to Christ. We receive Salvation it's a gift. Only those who believe receive
Our freewilll comes in to play of whether or not to rebel against being convinced. Or we rebel against submitting to Christ. Rebellion is our freewill choice. If we choose not to rebel we become right with God. There are only two possibilities, they are saved or, lost.
MB -
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pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
theology is not what washed away our sins, it simply informed us of when, how and who, and knowing or not knowing the when, how and who will not negate the reality of its being done and finished during the when by the who and how.
so you see, all these debates and discussions on free grace and freewillism is good in as far as sharpening one's irons are, except that being the fallen human beings we are, we can't help insulting and deriding the other side, as you can see on this board. -
Truth
When I started talking to people I never knew my own people would disagree the the Hope that the world has through Jesus.
One day there will be amount that will come to Jesus that will not be able to be counted.
I started this in 1993 and I have learned a lot from my calvinist brothers and have come so far from where I was.
One thing I realize they can never take away no matter what the do is take away the hope the whole world has through Jesus.
There is an elect which I cannot deny, but the other side of the coin is that the hope we have is for the whole world and no matter what you do , you cannot reconcile it out of the bible. It is the other side of the coin that man try to reconcile out, but it is still there.
I praise God for those who have still held firm to the Gospel truth of the good news.
God hasn't lyed to you that He does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. You trying to reconcile that into your belief system is as bad as a freewiller trying to reconcile the scripture you give to thier belief system. -
2. Zero!
3. Nada!
GOD will bring to Salvation those HE chose before the foundation of the world. Nothing man can do will alter that truth!
Look here and listen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ_jFO2VzRQ -
preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
{face-palm}
oy... -
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Personally, I don't understand those who say we have no free will. Mankind down through the centuries has proven that not to be true. We have the choice to make (as Joshua said in Joshua 24:15 "Choose you this day whom ye will serve----as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."
That was a conscious and free choice--just as it was my choice when I chose to accept the Lord as my Saviour nearly 47 years ago. Others choose not to serve or accept Him. Lucifer had a free will when he chose to rebell against God and desire to be equal to Him as stated in Isaiah 14.
We are not robots, wind-up toys, or puppets on strings destined to do as we're made to do, to say what we're made to say, to walk as we're made to walk.
God through His foreknowledge knew who would and who would not accept Him and chose through that foreknowledge who He would and would not save. The "elect" are simply those who are saved--NOt those that God elected to save over others that He rejected. I am nothing special, and yet God saved me on May 18, 1963--not because I was worthy, but in spite of the fact that I was NOT worthy. -
I am not sure that a person's view of soteriology changes his obedience to the great commission. I have known Calvinists who obey as well as non-Calvinists who obey. the same goes for those who disobey.
I am not sure what your point is. -
Additionally, supposing Calvinism is false, think of all the time, energy, effort and Christian resources wasted on the proclamation of its claims by its adherents and the rebuttal of those claims by its opponents. If "Arminianism" is false, no such eternal effect can be claimed...after all we are just doing as we are decreed to do, right? :saint: -
The same logic could be applied to your position also. Think of all the time, effort and energy you have expended in trying to "debunk" Calvinism.
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pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
But we can't do anything else that is not within our nature, just like a cockroach can't bite like a rattler, or a rattler purr like a kitten, or a kitten roar like a lion, or a lion fly like an eagle, or an eagle dive into the sea like a kingfisher, or a dolphin do what dolphins are unable to do.
Look what happened.
Lucifer can NEVER be redeemed. How can you redeem a spirit with no blood thru the blood of the Savior who put on human flesh ? A spirit has no blood, and there is nothing in Scripture specifying how a fallen angel is to be redeemed.
Adam and Eve were thrown out of the garden, where once God cared for all their needs, and "in Adam, all die" which is to say, all his descendants are spiritually dead, because Adam certainly didn't die physically at that point.
Romans 9:14-23
What shall we say then ? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid .
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy , and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion .
So then it is not of him that willeth , nor of him that runneth , but of God that sheweth mercy .
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up , that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth .
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault ? For who hath resisted his will?
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God ? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known , endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, -
pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
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Your posts show a fundamental misconception of what Calvinism teaches.
I just wonder what would happen if the professional Non-Calvinists and the professional Calvinists turned their considerable intellects towards the liberals on this board who love to point out what they incorrectly see in their minds as errors in the Bible and deny the Bible as God's literal Word.
And, those, my friend, are the real vampires.
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