he understands that the RCC teaches that one is saved by Grace of God, but that is NOT fully sufficient from the Cross of christ, but we MUST co operate with God in the salvation process, by taking the sacraments in faith, and THAT finally saves us!
denies the blood of jesus full propitiation of sins, and that God can freely justify us by faith alone in that work of Christ!
whats Does The RCC mass/Eucherist Add To lacking of the Cross?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Yeshua1, Jun 19, 2012.
Page 3 of 4
-
-
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
WM -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
Only an evangelical will say that salvation is based on faith. The RCC does not believe that, and Trent denounced it.
"I hope to obtain pardon..." The prayer expresses a lack of assurance. There is absolutely no assurance in the RCC of eternal life. Catholic after Catholic after Catholic does not know for sure if they are going to heaven or not. Their answers are either: "I don't know," "No one can know," "I will only find out when that day comes," "If I have done good enough in this lifetime I hope I will make it." Those are the typical answers of Catholics. I know; I ask them.
The "I hope" in the prayer you quoted is a sincere hope that he will obtain pardon in the end. He doesn't know for sure that he will. There is no assurance.
-
Thinkingstuff Active Member
-
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Your condescending tone to DHK is rather dispicable. Your "break it down" step by step logic is full of holes that require a certain set of presumptions that are really irrational. For example, you argue that you are "saved" at the point of faith prior to baptism but only conditioned upon something preventing baptism which means you are arguing on the basis of the exception of the rule in order to establish the rule that one is "saved" at the point of faith - hence irrational nonsense!
Furthermore, you argue:
So as I'm being saved baptism provides
Quote:
Immersion in water symbolizes not only death and purification, but also regeneration and renewal. Thus the two principal effects are purification from sins and new birth in the Holy Spirit.65
Immersion is not the common mode used by the Catholic Church. So again you argue on the basis of the exception to the rule in order to establish the rule. Irrational again!
It is obvious that you are so immersed into Catholic dogma that outside a direct act of God you could not see, comprehend, perceive the truth of the Scriptures if they stared you in the face. -
So baptism saves you , as it washed away oroginal sin stae, links you to jesus...
what does faith in him actual give you the batism didn't? -
Read: http://offthebench.nbcsports.com/2012/06/21/topless-protest-shocks-euro-2012-psychic-pig/
The Bible teaches "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the "Word of God." Most Catholics only hear a little of the Word of God at the Mass they attend once a week. And even then it is not likely they pay attention and even less likely they understand it. No Biblical exposition is ever given. No understanding = no faith. Faith comes from the Word of God. It is not infused directly by God. Catholics can believe the moon is made of green cheese (and at one time did so), but that didn't make it true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moon_is_made_of_green_cheese
Simpletons also believe that water saves them but it doesn't make it true,
or that faith is somehow magically infused into them by God when they are infants, but that doesn't make it true.
Righteousness is imputed by faith (Rom.4:3).
Faith requires a response and obedience to God.[/quote]
Faith requires an object. That object is Jesus Christ.
By faith and faith alone a person is saved. It is faith in Jesus Christ and his atoning work in Christ that a person is saved.
After that a person walks by faith, lives the Christian life by faith. Faith is not mystical, supernatural, esoterical, existential, and in the realm of the meta-physical as you are describing it.
Paul said in Romans 5:1
Being justified by faith we have peace with God. It is a one time action.
-
By faith and faith alone a person is saved. It is faith in Jesus Christ and his atoning work in Christ that a person is saved.
After that a person walks by faith, lives the Christian life by faith. Faith is not mystical, supernatural, esoterical, existential, and in the realm of the meta-physical as you are describing it.
No, baptism is a work. Works don't save. Water doesn't save. Hindus believe water forgives sin. What makes your religion any different? It is completely superstitious, just like the psychic pig.
Wrong again.
Paul said in Romans 5:1
Being justified by faith we have peace with God. It is a one time action.
The RCC are ignorant at Biblical exposition. I will not take the time to expound this to you as it has been done by Biblicist already. Study the word "eis" in the Greek, and then compare its use to Matthew 3:11.
It begins and ends at faith in Christ. It is a one time act never to be repeated again. If you don't grasp that Biblical concept there is no hope for you in heaven.
And this proclamation is heresy.
Of course you find it problematic. You have forsaken the teachings of the Bible for the teachings of the Catechism which has pitted itself against the Word of God. It is contrary step by step to the Word of God. It is a book of heretical teaching leading people to hell.[/QUOTE]
Actually, ALL of us are born ending down that path, its just the official RCC teachings have NO hope provided to get them off the "Highway to hell" -
Does the Catholic Church change?
It changed in the 1960's with Vatican II.
It changes as it encounters different cultures.
It changes every times it makes a "mistake" and tries to cover it up.
Some mistakes are very difficult to cover up, and apologies and changes are very late in coming. Take for example:
[FONT="]http://www.christianity.com/ChurchH...com&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=06/22/2012/[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]However Jesus Christ never changes. He is the same, yesterday, today and forever.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]His Word never changes. It is our only rule of faith and practice. Thankfully we don't have to depend on an ever-changing RCC theology.
[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT] -
-
Thinkingstuff Active Member
The bible says its true. You just want to disagree with the bible.
-
Thinkingstuff Active Member
-
The catholic Church never changed in vatican 1/2?
Never when the Popes/Cardinals declared "new revelation" on Mry, as being immaculate conceived and assumption? -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
Also there is no new revelation. The popes never said there was a new revelation with marian dogmas. They have always been believed and there are documents and proofs I can show you that verify that. -
The Assumption of Mary was not an official doctrine of the RCC until as recently as 1950, and you say it never changes. This absurd doctrine was not believed until that late date.
Purgatory, when did that become official? With Augustine?
The Apocrypha did not become official until 1532.
The RCC changed and changed and changed.
All the popes had to speak "ex cathedra," and each added their little doctrines into that body of faith you speak of. It keeps on changing. -
Did he even give the original doctrines or not? -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
-
Thinkingstuff Active Member
Page 3 of 4