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Featured Where are the Fossilized Remains of Millions of Humans?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by InTheLight, Mar 26, 2013.

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  1. nodak

    nodak Active Member
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    Respectfully, no it isn't important.

    I know some think it important out of fear if the earth is old it allows time for evolution.

    But many many old earthers totally reject evolution. There are many who are truly NOT trying make an end run about God being the great Creator who created all we see out of nothing. They aren't trying to say we came from bugs.

    The simple truth is that time is where we live, not where God lives. He is God and I am not. I cannot begin to get my little pea brain around all He holds in constant motion and existence. I cannot get my little pea brain around the fact time is time to me, not to Him, and in fact may not always be as straight and linear and non changing as it seems to me.

    He did it. He created. I seriously doubt He needed a full 24 hours any day of creation. May have been the blink of His eye by our time or eons by our time. Doesn't matter a whit. However long it was it was a day by HIS TIME, which isn't our time.

    Far more important to know HE CREATED rather than we evolved than to have the time schedule.
     
  2. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Perhaps Dr. Henry Morris of the Institute for Creation Research can change your mind.

    Please read the article in it's entirety. It may or may not convince you of the importance of accepting the Genesis account of creation as true and historical, but I would pray it gives you pause to consider what not believing that to be the case might entail.
     
  3. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    One can travel to Sandia Crest near Albuquerque, NM, and see many, many fossils of obvious sea creatures 10,000 ft above sea level. That proves the flood to me.
     
  4. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  5. nodak

    nodak Active Member
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    Thank you, but I've already read Morris.

    Did NOT need him to convince me to accept the Genesis account EXACTLY as it is written.

    The false teaching going around is that one must EITHER accept young earth creationism OR reject the Genesis account.

    That is just simply untrue. Many strong fundamentalist Baptists accept the Genesis account exactly as written and are not young earthers. Some are old earthers. Some simply state they have no idea of the time frame, since the Bible doesn't give it.

    Yes--growing up in NM in the oil fields, finding the fossil records unbelievably deep in the earth, reinforced my belief in the Genesis account AND in the flood.

    What it did not do was convince me of a time frame. My personal thoughts are that both creation and the flood are much farther back in time that we realize. They happened just as Genesis records it, but unlike Ussher I'm not willing to say dates like 4004 BC. Who know but what tomorrow someone may drill into human remains from a few million years ago?

    It doesn't matter to me, because I hold to what the Bible SAYS, not to how humans interpret it.
     
  6. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    With due respect, I would tell someone who made such a statement that they really don't know what they believe, if that is the case.

    Given that there is no dating method capable of accurately determining age beyond about 7,000 years ago, I'd enjoy knowing how they would come up with that date. Also, archeologists, anthropologists, and geologists have combined to attempt to sell us on dates over a million years ago already, but without anything but the sedimentary record, which we know is notoriously unreliable as proof for anything the claim, they are whistling in the dark.

    If you truly do, you have to accept a "young Earth" viewpoint. Nothing else makes sense. Anyone who states that the Bible offers no date for these events is making excuses for not accepting it's truth. Sorry if that ruffles feathers, but so be it.
     
  7. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    thisnumber, although I have tremendous respect for you, I think it a little out of place to tell someone "they don't know what they believe". Perhaps I read it wrongly, if so you can chastise me.

    You are simply wrong when it comes to dating "stuff" older than 7000 years. There are multitudes of highly reliable radiometric dating techniques and metrics. True, all of them, as does all of science, operate within assumptions. When, or if, any of those assumptions are proven false, then one can validly claim them to be invalid. I understand, or at least I think I do, that you wish to make the YE vs. OE an argument of faith, those who side on OE simply lack that element of "faith". I DONT KNOW all the answers regarding such, and I do think I am "doing any violence" to any scriptural principle by coming down on the side of OE. For me, the importance of Genesis is "theological".....God Created. If I am to be ostracized for having such a position.....so be it.
     
  8. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Perhaps, but my motive is a disgust for ignorance and a hatred of lies.

    Anyway, young or old, the fact that modern bird fossils are found in the same strata as dinosaurs proves they coexisted. That is the death knell of Evolution, and why our enlightened scientists, who are the only ones who insist on an old age, do not display them with dinosaurs in museums, and post misleading information.
     
  9. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    It was meant as a general "you" and not an indictment of nodak, but in reviewing, I obviously did not make that clear. My apologies to nodak and to others who read it.

    That would be true if we could actually observe the conditions of the deterioration, which we can't, given that some radiometric dating purports to be able to use the half-lifes of isotopes Potassium-40 (1.25 billion years) or Uranium-238 (4.47 billion years) to establish accurate dating. The assumption that these elements were distributed evenly throughout the environment millenia ago is ludicrous, since it is obvious that results when studying the presence the much shorter half-lifed Carbon-14 (5,730 years) can vary widely in adjacent samples.

    No, not exactly, though the element of faith does enter into the discussion. It isn't a matter of YE having faith and OE not having faith. It is a matter of those who subscribe to OE not being able to then turn 180 degrees and defend a faith based on biblical truth when OE cannot be established using biblical truth. It simply doesn't hold up. Unknowingly, believers accepting an OE point of view, even one under the guidance of the Intelligent Designer, whatever name might be attached to Him -- preferably the God of the Bible -- are making it difficult to defend their own faith from that same Bible.

    I am thinking you meant you don't believe you are "doing any violence" -- not that you think you are. If I have leaped to a false conclusion, please forgive me. Yes, Genesis is theological, but the importance of the resulting YE viewpoint is that it thereby remains consistent with the truth of the rest of the work. With OE, it does not, which makes for a chink in the armor of belief.
     
  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    The only time frame scripture gives is 6 literal 24 hour days of creation. Anything else leads to all sorts of ungodly garbage. The time frame after that is speculative. I believe it can possibly total anywhere from 10 to 20000 years.

    And there are a number of high places in NM where you find all sorts of fossils.
     
  11. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    Yes thank you, I did intend "not"

    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dalrymple/radiometric_dating.html
    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html#observe
     
    #51 quantumfaith, Oct 29, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2013
  12. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I am old earth.

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    And the earth was* without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep

    Was* or became. Why? Because the presence of God wasn't there.

    And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Gen 1:3-5

    I also believe that was a 24 hour period, the beginning of this present system (world) on the earth.

    Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him. John 11:9,10

    Those two verses are not speaking of the sun coming up and going down. The light of the world there is God and the darkness of the world is the ways of Satan. See also Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God. The exact same as in Gen 1:3-5 which was 72 hours before the sun begin to keep time on the earth.

    Therefore I am an OE but believe in the 6/24 of renewing of the earth and the creating of man Adam the type of the one to come, the Christ, the last Adam.
     
  13. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Just getting the revival of this thread back on track.
     
  14. nodak

    nodak Active Member
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    Yes--there are many high points in NM with fossils. And it gets really interesting if you study the fossil record in the overthrust belt in Wyoming.

    Respectfully, while our dating methods are not pin point accurate, and in fact in the hands of novices can come up with some outlandish stuff, they do in fact hold up overall. I can cite some pretty silly results they can give, but I can turn around and cite some pretty silly conclusions young earthers come up with.

    My personal view, and it does pertain to the original portion of the thread, is this: in untold length of time, probably eons, back, God did the original creation. No 24 hour solar days since you can't have them without a solar system and creation predates the solar system according to the Bible's Genesis account. Also, the Scriptures use the word for day to mean "era" as we might say "In Abraham Lincoln's day." Add in Scripture telling us that with the Lord a day is as a thousand years, and some things are just part of the secret counsel of His will. He doesn't tell us.

    That original creation was for the angels. To save bandwidth I'll just say if you want to understand this epoch in my beliefs research "gap theory." Lot's of writing out there that explain it. That accounts, I believe, for a portion of the record we see in the fossils and in the earth's strata.

    Then came the rest of creation along with mankind, pre Flood. We don't know how long it was between the creation of humans and the Flood. Personally I believe it was long enough for a huge population explosion, either due to being eons long OR due to long life spans and a prolific birth rate, or both. I don't think even young earthers always grasp the magnitude of the cataclysm of the flood. And I believe that accounts for some of the ancient fossil record, including the inconvenient ones (to evolutionists) that would seem to point to mankind coexisting with species they are not supposed to coexist with.

    Post flood, I believe, has been an incredibly long time because of the continued cataclysms the earth has endured. That has jumbled up the fossil record, the earth strata record, all we see as ancient history and geology. Mountains rose, oceans receeded and reformed, continents drifted, plates shifted, earthquakes happened, some areas were stood on end or thrust up and others buried in the deeps that may at one time have been populated. I believe it took a long time for mankind to recover enough for God to begin to reveal His plan of salvation. So I am totally on board with the dating of young earthers from about Abraham onward.

    I remember being a young child in school and we would be told this species or that, including mankind, had only been on earth for x number of years. And it seems every decade or so we discover something that pushes that date back farther.

    I've yet to see any of that disagree with anything in the Bible's account of creation.
     
  15. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    YEC here....

    Just gonna offer my OPINION here. I am YEC in my belief and as to the OP I personally believe that the total population of the earth from Adam to Noah was relatively small (in comparison to today's #'s)and probably more localized to the geographical area surrounding the Mideast. I don't believe that they had time, nor means to migrate all across the face of the entire earth as we have today. Now, there is nothing in the Biblical record that would contradict the idea that God populated the entire earth with the amount of ANIMALS He created and set into existence across the face of His earth on day FIVE of His creative work. The ONLY living thing that He created in a limited quantity was man....just ONE man and ONE woman. He created and set them IN TIME and time has it's limitations on how many and how fast pro-creation can occur. I think that this in itself would offer a reasonable explanation for TWO THINGS....#1) why there are not many "fossilized" human remains from the time of the flood...and #2) why the fossilized animal remains that DO EXIST are scattered across the entire earth. That is just my humble opinion. Bottom line?....you can't go wrong by just simply BELIEVING the Word of God....literally. :thumbsup:

    Bro.Greg:saint:
     
  16. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    I just stopped by McDonald's for lunch on the way home from work, and believe all these missing skeletons are ground up in their dollar value patties.
     
  17. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    :laugh: :laugh:
     
  18. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    As Phil Robertson "Duck Dynasty," said, "I love animals too. I think they are delicious."
     
  19. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    I know "yall" will perceive me to be a little "sappy" here, but I am truly an animal lover. I am not, however, a vegan. At times I wished I could pull that off. For me, saying "Grace' at meal time, although first and foremost, it is gratitude for God's provision, I also recognize the fact that some animal, unwillingly, gave its life to offer temporary sustenance for me. I think that it might connect to that old "arch enemy" DEATH that Christ conquered.
     
  20. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Arch enemy? Don't you mean death is the power of God to create? There is no evolution without it.
     
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