First of all, I don't see where all of the mass confusion is. Only in a small percentage of the population - which tends to be KJVO - is this confusion found.
With the Truth. A little research will instruct you as to why we have several translations.
Which KJVO are you?
Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Pastor_Bob, Dec 22, 2003.
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BTW why doesn't God just transport/resurrect us into the heavenlies when we are born again?
He has the power to do so.
HankD -
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Every other year I teach a "Understanding Greek for English Bible Readers" class. Takes a few weeks to be able to pronounce the words and recognize basic forms (nouns, verbs, etc).
Then use an interlinear NT - I love George Ricker Berry's because it is the 1550 Stephanus Text, under each word is best modern English and KJV1769 in column for comparison. Plus a lexicon (dictionary) and work on synonyms.
EVERY educated person 100 years ago knew Latin and Greek BEFORE they were allowed into college. It seems that our drift away from scholarly pursuits and historical languages is coming home to roost in this generation. -
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Dr. Bob, why does God allow evil? He has the power to remove it.
Why did God allow a haughty, perverted king to commission men who baptized babies and persecuted baptists to translate his word? He had the power to stop them. -
I do not need to to study Greek. In the future I may study it with my children in homeschool, at this point I am thankful that the Lord gave me a Bible in English. -
I have seen more KJV preferred/onlies in real life who act like Christ. In my experience most MV proponents (or at least the ones who like to argue about it) are worldly, sarcastic, condescending and prideful concerning their real or imagined superiority in education and/or intelligence. Many appear to enjoy mocking and belittling people.
This observation had A LOT to do with me first considering the KJVO position.
Thanks Pastor Bob! -
I have enjoyed reading the different points of view in this thread.
I believe the KJB is the inerrant, inspired word of God. I guess I'm a moderate in the KJBO only crowd because I believe you can be saved out of any version. Faith in God and his Grace are what provide Salvation. People get saved out of tracts and billboards and by hearing. Christ does the saving always has and until the judgement always will.
Nevertheless, here is why I use King James Only.
1) This is the Bible that the plan of salvation was given to me out of. I found Jesus Christ in the KJV and in all of my reading of other Bibles I have never felt the spiritual connection that I have with KJB.
2) There has been a King James Version since 1611. We have had Wycliffe bibles, Luther Bibles, and countless other versions yet this one, almost 400 years later is still with us. If it was all that bad God wouldn't have let it continue. How many other books calling themselves Bibles have come and gone.
3)The King James has more people taking shots at it than any other version that calls itself a bible. If such a large percentage of the religious organization is taking pot shots at it. It has to be good. The religious hierarchy of Jesus' time hated him also.
4) Faith- I really don't have the scholarly background of many that are here but by faith I believe the King James is the Bible.
5) I don't want to knock people who disagree with the KJBO view. Each believer is responsible for the truth they have been given. If God uses one of these other versions to feed you then have at it. However I do resent the implication that those who do believe that the KJB is the bible are intellectual midgets. It comes across as conceited and arrogant.
Thank you for posting this, it has been most informative. -
Dr. Bob - I wonder if some of our more mature high school students would enjoy me teaching a beginning Greek class. I have three or four who would definitely enjoy something like that. Have you ever seen young people take the class? -
[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]I was waiting for someone to show me what I was missing. But, so far no one has taken the time.
The comments I have received so far have been, "If you only knew Greek then you would understand," "You don't know Greek that is why you are confused," etc. All to sidetrack the discussion, to make the other person feel lower.
But, so far no "scholars" have taken any time to explain to those who know less than they do. I wonder why that is.
Also, please show me from the Bible a verse that teaches that a person must learn Greek?
Since it has never been explained from those who know Greek will someone explain to me who does, why is fasting not listed in 1 Corinthians 7 in the NAS?
And why does 1 Peter 3 tell women that it is ok to wear gold and pearls when 1 Timothy says it is not ok in the NAS?
1 Cor 8:1, "Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth."
Eph 3:19, "And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye may be filled with all the fullness of God." -
The whooshing sound you hear . .
Why Christians should study the Bible in its original languages?
Simple. Whenever you translate words, phrases, sentences, books from a language into another language (call the "receptor") there are going to be many many differences.
Whole ideas may be lost. Phrases that were an idiom of the language may mean NOTHING in the new language.
The is RADICALLY needed between Greek and English, since the structure of these two languages is not cognate.
So if you are going to study what GOD said, you need to go to His Word - NOT a translation of it where someone ELSE has put in their sentiments - and see it for yourself!
Short quiz on language and you'll see why you need to learn some (1) MODERN English as well as (2) Hebrew and (3) Greek:
1. Acts 28:12 KJV1769 revision "And landing at Syracuse, we tarried there three days. And from thence we fetched a compass, and came to Rhegium: and after one day the south wind blew, and we came the next day to Puteoli"
Where did the ship get the compass? What good did the compass do them?
Answer:
2. Jeremiah 17:10 KJV1769 revision "I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings."
What are the reins? What is God doing with our reins?
Answer:
3. Revelation 22:19 KJV 1769 revision "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
How many Greek texts out of 5500 have the phrase "book of life"? How many of the 5-7 that Erasmus had used this phrase?
Answers: -
To make a circuit of; circle: The sailboat compassed the island.
To surround; encircle. See Synonyms at surround.
To understand; comprehend.
To succeed in carrying out; accomplish. See Synonyms at reach.
To scheme; plot. American Heritage Dictionary.
The Bohairic Version; Ambrose (4th Century); and the commentaries of Primasius and Haymo (6th and 9th centuries, respectively). Further, it is supported by Saint Ambrose (340-397 AD), by Bachiarius (late fourth century), and by Primasius in his commentary on Revelation (552 AD)"
Libro (book) is the reading of the Latin mss. Codex Fuldensis (sixth century); Codex Karolinus (ninth century); Codex Oxoniensis (twelfth to thirteenth century); Codex Ulmensis (ninth century); Codex Uallicellanus (ninth century); Codex Sarisburiensis (thirteenth century); and the corrector of Codex Parisinus (ninth century). -
If I rememebr right, Matthew Henry started studying Greek at the age of ten.
I was told that several years ago a major leader from Germany for the Jehovah's Witnesses came to Christ by studying the Greek text using what he had learned in college in Germany.
Over and over again I hear parents telling me how school should be fun and their children should not have very much homework. Years ago I taught high school with a teacher that held to that philosophy. I once told him that he may pat them on the back and tell them they are great, but society will really tell them how well they are prepared. It is the differing philosophies of being well prepared versus getting through and getting the degree. So many have degrees but not much temperature. -
I do not need to to study Greek. In the future I may study it with my children in homeschool, at this point I am thankful that the Lord gave me a Bible in English. </font>[/QUOTE]The original manuscripts were in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, None were in English. The English is a translation. You cannot ever translate without interpreting. The interpreters/translaters believed in infant baptism that is the reason why we have the transliterated word baptize from the Greek word baptizo and baptism from baptisma. Baptize and baptism are not translated words but a transliteration. How else do you think they could get around infant baptism? -
There's a whole thread on that.
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So many have degrees but not much temperature.
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If I rememebr right, Matthew Henry started studying Greek at the age of ten.
I was told that several years ago a major leader from Germany for the Jehovah's Witnesses came to Christ by studying the Greek text using what he had learned in college in Germany.
Over and over again I hear parents telling me how school should be fun and their children should not have very much homework. Years ago I taught high school with a teacher that held to that philosophy. I once told him that he may pat them on the back and tell them they are great, but society will really tell them how well they are prepared. It is the differing philosophies of being well prepared versus getting through and getting the degree. So many have degrees but not much temperature. </font>[/QUOTE]I agree with you. We are planning on learning Latin next year, with one of our homeschool students. Then in the future we may study Greek. My husband studies Hebrew on his own. For now though I will continue to read the KJV Bible.
Scott Emerson,
We have the commentaries and expository dictionaries but I would not consider that I know Greek just from owning and reading these books. -
Personally I see "best" as being Byzantine.
Even "older" is better than "best", it is objective (although the determination of "old" is very often a subjective matter sometimes varying between individuals by centuries).
When we use terms of quality which is subjective we may unwittingly cause animosity. I realize it is unavoidable in some cases.
There is so much friction about this matter that many simply close their eyes and ears and learn little or nothing.
Not that I am without sin, but I'm not casting a stone either just making a suggestion which I intend to try and do myself.
HankD
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