While Colin Kaepernick Refuses To Stand...........

Seems like, before I made statements like this, I'd actually know something about someone, other than they disagree with you.

Like, what color their skin actually is. Or if they're a minority. Or what part of town they grew up in. Or what they had to deal with growing up.

Or what they're doing in their own community to give back and help.

But you're right. It's easier to make assumptions, cast aspersions and innuendo, and strawmen arguments. Then we don't have to actually make intelligent arguments.

Keep telling yourself that; I'm sure it makes you feel better.

 

I said for "being willing to sacrifice". He may have sacrificed his career and endorsements by taking a stand. And I'll say this. Some of those same folks whose faces you claim he has spit in are the very ones spitting in the face of mothers and sons and daughters who have had their fathers murdered by police officers.

But again, he has made it clear that this has nothing to do with the military.

You mean like Christians saying they love Jesus while supporting a man who is against him?

Or like folks saying they are followers of Jesus while having no empathy for the families of those murdered by police?

You mean like white Christians saying they love their black Brothers and Sisters while supporting a man who continues to denigrate them?

Okay. You're disrespected. So let's talk about this disrespect.

Now you know how Blacks feel about the disrespect from the police, from the prosecutors, from the judges, and from the white folks who agree with them.

If you feel disrespect from a man refusing to stand during the national anthem, you're still alive. There's recourse for you to voice your opinion.

What about those who continue to be murdered by police officers with no due process? You think their families feel disrespected by those who have collectively told them their loved ones lives meant NOTHING?

Police officers have been shown to be proven liars again and again. Are you out of favor with them too?

You're missing the point and it may be because you don't want to understand what Blacks are saying. Perhaps those guys did break the law. You've got white folks who do the SAME things day in and day out. Yet miraculously they make it to a court room.

So again, I completely agree with the young man. Liberty and justice for all in this country is a farce. And if you or anyone else thinks he or anybody else needs to stand up out of respect for what those who have served have done, while some of you who have served show no respect for the lives of those who look like him, then you might need to call a medic because you and those who continue to support this systemic murder by the police are just as culpable for cosigning with the foolishness.

There is no difference between what Rosa did and what Colin Kaepernick did. And the fact that you and a lot of white people don't get that is very telling to Blacks.

He has nothing to lose? He has endorsement deals with Apple, Jaguar, TTM and MusclePharm just to name a few. He signed a $114 million dollar contract in 2014. And he's essentially placed his LIFE on the line because folks are crazy.

You're white. Your perception is irrelevant to Blacks because you aren't experiencing what they are.

Man hush. You don't get to decide who is and isn't a hero. Gosh the stuff you're saying about him could apply to Jesus Christ. The man has said that he was trying to insult the military and very intelligently explained what he was attempting to do. If that's not enough for you, who cares?

Like I said, neither you nor any other white person in America needs to get it. The folks who needed to get it got it loud and clear.

Note none of this was intended to sound dismissive or like I personally don't care about your service. I'm just saying that I understand what he has said and why he just can't worry about the "optics" of what it might look like to some.

 

I appreciate your response. Obviously, I disagree with a lot of it. However, I just got out of physics and applied statistics is about to start, so I don't have the time to give you a full reply. I plan on replying in full after classes.

Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk

 

Squire

He's 28 years old and will be 29 in November. He's got the quarterback skills where he could play another 10 years if he wants. Maybe not as a start, but he could be. There are plenty of teams who need an extra quarterback. ***cough cough Dallas***

Sure he may be playing poorly right now. But he's still got NFL talent.

 

I'm not going to argue whether his career was already in jeopardy or not, as it doesn't matter. He's made millions of dollars already. He might be "sacrificing" a few more million, but that's nothing when you've already got millions.

In order to make that claim, it has to be established there is indeed a problem on the scale that is perceived. I'll agree that there are problem areas, maybe even whole police forces in cities that are problem areas. But to claim that there is a national problem is an outrageous claim that will need a lot more than perception to back up. There has to be irrefutable evidence, and so far there has not been. Especially when the cases chosen to represent a movement (I am speaking again of Brown, Martin, etc) have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the man killed was the aggressor.

Tu Quoque does not answer the question or make my point any less. Someone else's wrongs don't make the first person's wrongs right.

A little confusing there. Do I know how they feel, or don't I?

Again, I'd die for his right to do so; but it's still disrespect.

A man's life or death holds value only in what he does with it. If a man lives a life of crime and then dies attacking a police officer, then his life has no worth (to society; obviously to Christ it is valuable, as it should be to Christians). Now I've granted you that some cases have been either police negligence or possibly even brutality. But in an overwhelming majority of the videos I've viewed, at the very worst it was impossible to tell, but many times it was not what BLM is claiming it was.

Police officers that lie (to cover up something) should be stripped of their badges at the very least. So, yes, when a police officer lies like that I am out of favor with them. But the force as a whole? No.

To adequately answer this claim would take an entire post in and of itself, and possibly an entire thread. But you and I have gone on this merry-go-round before, a few years ago; discussing statistics and probability. To do so here would avail nothing.

Let's look at the key word used there: "some". Of all people, black persons should be able to realize that disrespecting a whole group because of the actions of a few is not the way to go. After all, isn't that what they are facing today?

Who did Rosa Parks disrespect?

Again, a few more million on top of the millions he's already gotten. It's not a sacrifice.

And here's the telling sentence right here. "We want our voices heard, regardless of our color! But yours doesn't count because you're the wrong color!" Honestly, Zaac, I didn't think you'd make a slip like that. You're usually very careful in what you say, but with these two sentences you've summed up why there can't be any reconciliation.

To quote you from several threads over the years, "I'll say what I wish".

I know I don't. There are criteria. He doesn't fit them.

No, I don't believe it can. Not even close.

To use the same analogy that I used before, I can very intelligently explain that I am not intending to hurt you when I punch you in the face. But it still hurts when I do.

So, the goal is equality, a goal that can't be realized in a democracy without a majority vote, and the minority wants to leave the majority out of it? You're talking in circles.

Believe it or not, I understand. We are on opposite sides of the fence here, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss the issue with respect.

 

Understand Squire.

 

Back before Kaepernick was born Blacks were not allowed to play sports with Whites. Now professional sports are about 90% black, and they are millionaires. They were banned from certain amusement parks, whites could refuse to sell homes to Blacks, or even refuse to bury them in white cemeteries. Kaepernick never experienced any of that. That was my point.

Oh yeah. Because some store clerk in Switzerland didn't show her a $38,000 handbag quickly enough.

 

Money is money. If you're making millions and then lose millions, it hurts.

It's your opinion and the opinion of a lot of white folks that it isn't the case. Up until a few years ago and phone cameras, folks didn't believe any of this stuff was going on even though Blacks have complained about the treatment for decades.

It's kinda silly, in lieu of the lies so many police departments have been caught in the middle of, to think that they wouldn't have lied or aren't currently lying about what's taking place.

There doesn't have to be irrefutable evidence. There has to be a group of people who know what's taking place and are fed up with it. Blacks are at that point so what you're talking about is futile. You and the folks who look like you aren't being murdered and policed differently.

Pretending there isn't a systemic national policing problem doesn't make it so either.

Nothing confusing about it. It was a sequential statement.

So is murdering someone's child.

Nope and if you believe that, don't ever speak about abortion.

You and a lot of white people need to get over your aversion to BLM. BLM isn't leading this movement. The people making the claims are the family members and the folks who have experienced these things first hand.

Chiding BLM is just a convenient excuse to sidestep what the police are doing.

Who said the whole? But there are enough police forces with these incidents taking place where the "good" cops have looked the other way that you've got to deal with it as a whole. The system is broken and these murders again and again prove it.

And when you've got the governor of a state saying that their at war with Blacks and people of color and saying that they should be shot, you have the audacity to say it's not the whole?

Racism is a problem in this country. White people don't get it because it's not their experience an they tend to side with the police because of the stereotypes that many want to believe about Blacks and other minorities. ANd the fact that a governor of a state says something like that shows the type of attitude that pervades in many states and police departments when it comes to policing Blacks.

There is a shoot fist mentality and you know it.

To adequately answer this claim would take an entire post in and of itself, and possibly an entire thread. But you and I have gone on this merry-go-round before, a few years ago; discussing statistics and probability. To do so here would avail nothing.

He didn't disrespect a whole group. He specifically said it had nothing to do with the military.

Kapernick is not the first black man to feel the way he does about the anthem in lieu of the disparate treatment of Blacks in this country.

You'd have to ask the folks who were offended. Like Kaepernick, I'm sure it wasn't her intention, but the folks who didn't like what she was doing certainly felt disrespected. The white bus driver. The white woman who the bus driver wanted her to give her seat to. The lady whom she was sitting next to and all the other white folks on the bus and in the country for feeling like she had the right to that seat no matter what they said.

Again, your opinion. You don't know what he's sacrificed and it's silly to act like you do.

Oh it wasn't a slip. Yours doesn't count because you're in that group of folks who aren't hearing what he said. You're hearing the part you feel is disrespectful and focused on that. The folks who needed to hear it, got it.

Yep, as did Kaepernick.

You can't believe a lot of things. It doesn't make those things less true.

Then take your punch in the face while the police are murdering unarmed black men.

Nope. The goal isn't equality. Blacks don't need the okay of Whites to be their equals. You think I'm talking in circles because you seem to think you know what the goal is and you don't.

I can tell you from talking to a lot of folks that a line has been crossed. The lives of Blacks and anyone who is not a part of the majority have been marginalized for 400+ years and well meaning Blacks and Whites have reached the breaking point where they simply aren't going to allow this status quo to continue.

If you or any other white or black person doesn't think there is a problem, fine. Get out the way.

 

So based upon what you're saying, someone might be inclined to believe that you believe the only place a black person in professional sports could experience racism was in the context of sports.Now Lewis, you know that is preposterous.

Well if he treated every customer like that, she probably wouldn't have said anything. But that again is something some folks don't quite seem to understand because it's never happened to them.

 

That's not even close to what I said. The examples of actual (not imagined) racism that I pointed out were back before Kaepernick, or any African American in the NFL were even born.

The store clerk was Swiss. In Switzerland. Her understanding of English was not perfect. Oprah decided to use this misunderstanding as an example of racism.

 

It is racist to assume and conclude that because a person of a different skin color didn't treat you the way you expect to be treated, that they are then racist. The racist mindset sees racism in everything except where it should - in themselves.

 

Again, we all know what happened before he was born. That doesn't exclude him from experiencing racism today.

And you know this better than the person who was actually there and experienced it? How can you or any second-hand person tell her what she didn't experience?

Could it be that the Swiss person said it was a misunderstanding after it made the news and the owners started doing PR control?

I mean it's Oprah Winfrey. If you found out that your employee mistreated her, the obvious thing to do is say it was a misunderstanding.

And from the interviews, it doesn't appear that the clerk said it was her lack of understanding English as she said that

Why would she happily show her other bags if she asked to see a specific bag?

 

I think a lot of people continue to confuse racism with racial prejudice. But if you as a white clerk feel that you can treat a non-white person in a different manner than you would a white person in terms of making purchases, that actually IS racism.

Racist mindset is singular. Themselves is plural.

SO next time folks say that Barack Obama is a racist and has divided the country , I'll remind them that Internet Theologian says that they should be looking at the racism in themselves.

 

Why are we even talking about Oprah Winfrey's perceived racist episode when it happened in Switzerland? I'm not a geography major, but last I heard, Switzerland isn't a part of the US.

 

That's OK, I happen to disagree with you and what the world or a dictionary tells me a 'true' definition of racism is. Why you're at it, ask the world what 'marriage' is.

 

So 1 day ago, I made a post where I quoted Zaac. #61.

No response.

Interesting. I'm gonna assume he missed it.