Nor is He the Author(or inventor) of the KJVO myth, either.
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Michelle:You are correct that God isn't the inventor of the KJVO myth. MV proponents/users are.
Wrong, as usual. SDA official B.Wilkinson accidentally started the KJVO doctrine, and J.J.Ray & Dr. D.O.Fuller made it into a full-blown false doctrine which soon evolved into a myth due to lack of evidence. Yes, God did NOT make it...it's purely a man-made invention, suggested by the devil.
Who is Ruckman?
Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Sep 11, 2004.
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Dr.Bob, did you *snip* yourself? Cool! :cool:
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Nah, he was just trimming his moustache and hair, GG! ;)
AVL1984 :D -
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Wrong, as usual. SDA official B.Wilkinson accidentally started the KJVO doctrine, and J.J.Ray & Dr. D.O.Fuller made it into a full-blown false doctrine which soon evolved into a myth due to lack of evidence. Yes, God did NOT make it...it's purely a man-made invention, suggested by the devil.
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I think you are very confused. Please explain to me what doctrine we believe outside of the truth in the scriptures? If someone has seen the truth that these mv's are not an accurate translation of the word of God, and have been altered, and have rejected them because of it, and have believed the KJB is the word of God in our language today, and generations past, to be the very word of God, and therefore defend this truth, how is it that they have believe in false doctrine? How is it that they started the label of the truth? NO, clearly this label is a myth slapped onto the truth, by many who reject that truth, and need to do this in order to feel justified for compromise.
Christians were first called christians by others, in Antioch. Not of or by themselves. It was a label placed upon them by others, that rejected the truth. When many of you call us KJVO, this is inaccurate, as it says we put limits upon God. I will not limit God, in saying that He would not at some point in the future update His word of truth in our language accurately, or that God has not provided HIS pure words of truth in other countries and languages. He has not yet done this in our language though, as it is clearly evidenced he hasn't. I personally believe that there won't be because of the days we are living in, surely do seem as though our Lord will be calling us up any moment. However, in case my personal belief is wrong, I would not limit God in the future, and this label seems to make it say we do. It also makes it seem that we don't believe any of the reformation Bibles in the past were the scriptures. It also makes it seem that we don't believe there are accurate Bibles in other countries of other languages. This has been what has been attached to this label. So when you all slap this label around, and claim that it is a man made myth, you are not only believing a lie, but encouraging a lie.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle -
Michelle:I think you are very confused.
Not at all, at least with what I post here.
Please explain to me what doctrine we believe outside of the truth in the scriptures?
The false doctrine that the KJV is the ONLY valid English Bible translation. You've said otherwise, but when asked what other specific version(s) you recommend, you won't answer specifically...therefore you, too, are a KJVO.
If someone has seen the truth that these mv's are not an accurate translation of the word of God, and have been altered,
Altered from WHAT? You haven't done anything but GUESS.
This is where your circular reasoning begins..."the KJV alone is right; the MVs don't read the same as the KJV; therefore thy're wrong; because they're wrong, the KJV is right."
and have rejected them because of it, and have believed the KJB is the word of God in our language today,
The KJV is NOT in our language today...its language is 400 years old.
and generations past, to be the very word of God,
It is NOT the very word of God...It's a TRANSLATION, same as every other English Bible.
and therefore defend this truth, how is it that they have believe in false doctrine?
Because the KJV is NOT the ONLY valid English translation of God's word. This has been proven repeatedly, but you and some others simply won't accept the truth, which God has made as plain as the corneas of your eyes. Time and again, when the KJVOs state the KJV is the only one, we've asked for proof...and received answers that would do the Presidential-campaign spin doctors proud. If they HAD the truth, theyda TOLD it long ago, and in plain, direct language, free of hype, spin, & guesswork.
How is it that they started the label of the truth? NO, clearly this label is a myth slapped onto the truth, by many who reject that truth, and need to do this in order to feel justified for compromise.
No, it's not...it's a label applied to those who believe the false KJVO doctrine, and THAT DOCTRINE is the myth.
Christians were first called christians by others, in Antioch. Not of or by themselves.
What has this to do with the price of coffee in Timbuktu?
It was a label placed upon them by others, that rejected the truth.
Scripture doesn't say WHO began calling believers Christians. It COULDA been themselves. And, as is typical of you, it's an attempt to avoid the REAL subject matter here.
When many of you call us KJVO, this is inaccurate, as it says we put limits upon God.
No, it's NOT inaccurate. The KJVO attempte to LIMIT GOD by rejecting any version of His word but their favorite.
I will not limit God, in saying that He would not at some point in the future update His word of truth in our language accurately,
How do you know He HASN'T? You're just GUESSING He hasn't....NO PROOF.
or that God has not provided HIS pure words of truth in other countries and languages.
The 1st true thing you've said this whole post.
He has not yet done this in our language though, as it is clearly evidenced he hasn't.
No, it's NOT clearly evidenced.
guesswork. Guesswork. GUESSWORK.
I personally believe that there won't be because of the days we are living in, surely do seem as though our Lord will be calling us up any moment.
Scripture doesn't say any such thing. It says the world will go on as it has been until "the end".
However, in case my personal belief is wrong,
It is.
I would not limit God in the future,
But you already have tried to.
and this label seems to make it say we do.
Which you DO do...well, TRY to do.
It also makes it seem that we don't believe any of the reformation Bibles in the past were the scriptures.
If you DO believe those older Bibles are valid, how can you believe the KJVO myth? NONE of those older Bibles are alike, either. That's a clear DOUBLE STANDARD. But..."Wisdom" is justified of her children.
It also makes it seem that we don't believe there are accurate Bibles in other countries of other languages.
Virtually every Japanese-language Bible is based upon the mss that the KJVOs say are corrupt. Didn't Jesus die for the Japanese also? Japan is a nation of over 100 million people. Are you saying God has ignored them?
This has been what has been attached to this label...By the KJVOs themselves, in a vain attempt to justify their myth.
So when you all slap this label around, and claim that it is a man made myth, you are not only believing a lie, but encouraging a lie.
Unlike the KJVOs, we can back up our claims. The beginnings of the current myth have been easily traced back to Wilkinson's 1930 book, and to the authors following him who took his bunk, added their own bunk to it, and, using more modern media and Madison Avenue hype, spread their fairy tale throughout the English-speaking Christian world. Unlike the points of the KJVO myth, this is FACT, not guesswork. If you believe the KJVO myth, you're believing a lie. If you spread the KJVO myth, you're TELLING a lie. We don't just CLAIM KJVO is a myth; we've PROVEN it.
Well, in this post, you told the truth once in about thirteen points. You're making progress, as you're above ZERO for now. -
Anyone care to share about his life, ministry and WHY he is "so hated"?
Thanks.
I think. :rolleyes: </font>[/QUOTE]I should say that I find it alarming that some one with your position would invite remarks about a man of God that was certainly decided in his stand as a Christian, but knowing the jesture of many so-called "christians", I'm not one bit surprized!
I take it in high regard for a man to stand for what he has found to be true and I don't think very much of one to try and surmise another's character and invite slurrs on the deceased.
The wolf has it's way of revealing it's fur underneath the woolen mantle it only thinks covers it's ploy to plunder the weary and unsuspecting. :(
(but then again, we are speaking of "Baptists" aren't we?) -
Your quote proves the niv to not be of God.
Thanks! -
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PlainOlRaplph: "...a man of God that *was* certainly decided in his stand...I take it in high regard for a man to stand for what he has found to be true and I don't think very much of one to try and surmise another's character and invite slurrs on the *deceased*"
Wait a minute here -- are you telling us, Ralph, that Ruckman is now deceased? If so, give us details. This is news to me.... -
I would like to know who Plainolralph is calling a wolf in sheeps clothing and a so-called Christian, I sure hope it is not a reference to our esteemed moderator.
Bro Tony -
HankD -
Ralph looks like another morphing of the same-old-same-old hate the NIV/NASB/NKJV. God bless you, brother, you have the right to your opinions.
But don't use "man of God" and "Ruckman" in the same breath. Sorry. You will find even the most rabid of the "only" sect here try to distance themselves from his heresies [term used biblically]. -
I have compared various versions. After comparing versions, I`m remain with the KJV as the only one I trust. How is that a false doctrine? I`ve been in services by many over the years. They haven`t all held the same view on the KJV. I`m not a mind numb robot marching in lock step!
I have no problem understanding the language of the KJV. I`ve worked with children, who had no problem understanding it. If language is the issue, why doesn`t everyone simply pursue a KJV in 21st century English?
If personal preferences are the issue, why do these conversations become so mean spirited?
Bob -
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Men of God in the Holy Bible just happen to be "drunks (Noah), incestuous fornicators (Lot), liars (Joseph), quick to kill (Moses), adulterers (David), and murderers (Paul), etc.
I'm absolutely certain that Ruckman can be numbered among them.
As far as heresy, Paul stated that MANY religious "folks" thought he taught heresy. (Acts 24) It just so happened that it turned out to be the WORDS of God. They were mistaken.
Micaiah sums up the whole matter nicely. (1 Kings 22:23-25) -
So Ruckman's clear and unambiguous teaching that the KJV corrects the Greek, that the AV translators were "inspired" and that errors (perceived) in the KJV were really advanced revelation by God to clear up the problems in the original texts is NOT heresy, but just Bob being nasty?
Hope I misunderstood you. Ruckman (you can follow many threads here that quote his exact words) teaches heresy. -
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Ruckman is not a prophet. Those people that you referenced got right with God after they sinned with the exception of Lot (at least the bible does not say if this saved man every got his life right). Too bad Dr. Ruckman will not follow their example and step down from the pulpit etc...
Just follow some of the links and read Ruckman's works. There is nothing loving and Christian in this man's works.
Paul was considered a heretic by the Jews because he taught the gospel of Jesus Christ. He taught that we no longer need to observe the law that was against us. Please don't slander the name of Paul by putting Paul in the same sentence as Peter Ruckman.
It would do Dr. Ruckman well to read the writings of Paul and obey them fully:
1 Tim. 3:1-5,"It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. [2] An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, [3] not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, uncontentious, free from the love of money. [4] He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity [5] (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?);"
Ruckman is not qualified to be a preacher or a teacher.
Don't you find it odd that Ruckman will still stand behind a pulpit?
Even as a KJVO, I knew that Ruckman was wrong and his methods ungodly.
But then again KJVOism covers a multitude of sins. -
AVL1984 -
Your quote proves the niv to not be of God.
Thanks! </font>[/QUOTE]Sorry, POR, but you're incorrect. It just goes to prove that the NIV is just as correct as the KJV. And what did your questions have to do with anything? It really seems to make no sense. Please, explain yourself.
AVL1984
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