And once again you prove you do not understand the difference between the death of Christ and His Atonement. You continue to conflate the two.
Why I am not a Calvinist....
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Iconoclast, Feb 27, 2018.
Page 3 of 9
-
-
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Saved-By-Grace
-
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterReynolds said: ↑Why even post that? You have ignorant non-Cals and ignorant Cals. Why find the worst you can and link it?Click to expand...
I was just looking at anti cal speakers....everyone of them is bogus
this clown, adrian rogers, walls, flowers are all pathetic...do you have one you think is good...go ahead and post it.
This is what I found online.....I am glad you see how foolish this man is... -
Saved-By-Grace said: ↑Now you are speaking in contradictions! You say that the blood of Jesus was shed for all; and then, this does not prevent God from electing some to election. What is the purpose for His death for ALL, if He has made it sure that He has selected only a few to be saved? This is a pretense! God is not sincere in His actions, which is impossibleClick to expand...
The cross was one aspect, the death an aspect, the blood shed from the garden to the tomb an aspect, the resurrection an aspect, and so forth.
You seem to desire God as being under obligation(s) according to human perspectives and determinations, but He is not. It is obvious that He purposes according to His own design, and such is not to be even questioned by the clay no matter of what that clay is designed.
It is also true that God is loving in all aspects of His creation. You have the ability to see were others are made incapable, you feel we’re others are numb. God is not impressed with bricks and mortar, with human engineering, nor is He subject to human contrivances and manipulation.
His Word presents the truth that the blood was shed for all.
His Word presents that of the all, many will be saved but not all.
His Word presents that the many are elected prior to even creation.
His Word presents that the many will both be preserved and persevere..
His Word presents that all are so desperately wicked that their hearts and minds are blinded through the Spiritual things.
His Word presents that God chooses those that will be saved.
Each of those items are basic to Scripture truth. The farther one moves to manipulating them, the more into the land of error one strides.
What is deplorable is when one argues against such things as the list above, then they are in great danger of being lead into error. This is exactly Wells condition, and it would be wise to not find your own self in such error. -
Saved-By-Grace Well-Known MemberTCassidy said: ↑And once again you prove you do not understand the difference between the death of Christ and His Atonement. You continue to conflate the two.Click to expand...
Are these words meant to be that the entire human race, except none, should have the Gospel preached to? -
BobRyan said: ↑Calvinism does not survive the test of scripture.
John 1:11 “He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him NOT”
"God so loved the WORLD that HE gave" John 3:16.
"God is not WILLING that ANY should perish" 2Peter 3.
God knew Judas would fail - and yet he washed his feet.
God knew His own would reject Him - and yet He came to them and yet he weeps over them in places like Matt 23. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem.. how I wanted to save your children...but YOU would not"
Matt 23
37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
Hosea 11
:7 So My people are bent on turning from Me.
Though they call them to the One on high,
None at all exalts Him.
8 How can I give you up, O Ephraim?
How can I surrender you, O Israel?
How can I make you like Admah?
How can I treat you like Zeboiim?
My heart is turned over within Me,
All My compassions are kindled.
Ezek 18
30“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct,” declares the Lord GOD. “Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you.
31“Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why will you die, O house of Israel?
32“For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord GOD. “Therefore, repent and LIVE!"
"He came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received Him not" John 1:11
2Cor 5
18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.Click to expand... -
Saved-By-Grace said: ↑"And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation" (Mark 16:15)
Are these words meant to be that the entire human race, except none, should have the Gospel preached to?Click to expand... -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterSaved-By-Grace said: ↑"And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation" (Mark 16:15)
Are these words meant to be that the entire human race, except none, should have the Gospel preached to?Click to expand... -
BobRyan said: ↑Calvinism does not survive the test of scripture.
John 1:11 “He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him NOT”
"God so loved the WORLD that HE gave" John 3:16.
"God is not WILLING that ANY should perish" 2Peter 3.
God knew Judas would fail - and yet he washed his feet.
God knew His own would reject Him - and yet He came to them and yet he weeps over them in places like Matt 23. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem.. how I wanted to save your children...but YOU would not"
Matt 23
37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
Hosea 11
:7 So My people are bent on turning from Me.
Though they call them to the One on high,
None at all exalts Him.
8 How can I give you up, O Ephraim?
How can I surrender you, O Israel?
How can I make you like Admah?
How can I treat you like Zeboiim?
My heart is turned over within Me,
All My compassions are kindled.
Ezek 18
30“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct,” declares the Lord GOD. “Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you.
31“Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why will you die, O house of Israel?
32“For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord GOD. “Therefore, repent and LIVE!"
"He came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received Him not" John 1:11
2Cor 5
18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.Click to expand...Iconoclast said: ↑your off topic spam .Click to expand...
I love the circular logic in that post. -
Saved-By-Grace Well-Known MemberYeshua1 said: ↑Calvinism is supported by the Bible, but Sda theology rests upon the sinking sand of EW period!Click to expand...
-
BobRyan said: ↑Calvinism does not survive the test of scripture.
John 1:11 “He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him NOT”
"God so loved the WORLD that HE gave" John 3:16.
"God is not WILLING that ANY should perish" 2Peter 3.
God knew Judas would fail - and yet he washed his feet.
God knew His own would reject Him - and yet He came to them and yet he weeps over them in places like Matt 23. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem.. how I wanted to save your children...but YOU would not"
Matt 23
37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
Hosea 11
:7 So My people are bent on turning from Me.
Though they call them to the One on high,
None at all exalts Him.
8 How can I give you up, O Ephraim?
How can I surrender you, O Israel?
How can I make you like Admah?
How can I treat you like Zeboiim?
My heart is turned over within Me,
All My compassions are kindled.
Ezek 18
30“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct,” declares the Lord GOD. “Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you.
31“Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why will you die, O house of Israel?
32“For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord GOD. “Therefore, repent and LIVE!"
"He came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received Him not" John 1:11
2Cor 5
18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.Click to expand...Yeshua1 said: ↑Calvinism is supported by the BibleClick to expand... -
Iconoclast said: ↑The gospel is freely offered to all....why would you think otherwise?Click to expand...
Too there are those who would think the offer of salvation is counterfeit unless a person has the power to respond.
Not realizing all do respond, most like characters found in Scriptures! “What! You think I will be persuaded with such little argument?” “The fool has said in his heart, ‘No, God!” -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterBobRyan said: ↑There you have it folks... all scripture that refutes Calvinism is "spam".
I love the circular logic in that post.Click to expand... -
Saved-By-Grace Well-Known MemberIconoclast said: ↑The gospel is freely offered to all....why would you think otherwise?Click to expand...
-
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporteragedman said: ↑There are always those who would allow human manipulation ability sufficiently capable os swaying the purpose of God.
Too there are those who would think the offer of salvation is counterfeit unless a person has the power to respond.
Not realizing all do respond, most like characters found in Scriptures! “What! You think I will be persuaded with such little argument?” “The fool has said in his heart, ‘No, God!”Click to expand...
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us. -
BobRyan said: ↑"no matter what the Bible says to the contrary"???Click to expand...
For example: Nicodemus. -
Saved-By-Grace said: ↑You are very mistaken to assume that Calvinism, is supported by the teachings of the Holy Bible. Jesus Christ "tasted death for all men", so that the whole of mankind, without exception, has the very possibility of being saved. No human being will end up lost and in hell, because God has not "provided" for their salvation in the Death of the Lord Jesus Christ; but, because sinners will not accept God's Righteous terms for their salvation. Calvinism teaches that only the "elect" will be saved, because these only were included in Christ's death. There is a contradiction between the Holy Bible and Calvinism here.Click to expand...
-
BobRyan said: ↑"no matter what the Bible says to the contrary"???Click to expand...
-
Saved-By-Grace Well-Known MemberYeshua1 said: ↑God has ordained the Gospel message as the means by which the Holy Spirit brings the Elect to new life in Christ, so all are to hear it!Click to expand...
-
Saved-By-Grace said: ↑I don't. But here is the real problem of Calvinism. The Gospel Message is to be preached to the entire human race, but, by design, the whole human race can never be saved, because Jesus Christ did not make provision for the whole human race when He died. His death is deemed as "particular", for the sins of the "elect" only. How then is there any Good News for the non-elect? are we to tell them, by the way, I have some very Good News for you, Jesus Christ did not "provide" for you in His death and therefore you cannot be saved, and you are damned to eternal hell. You simply cannot have it both ways. The preaching of the Good News to the whole human race, can only be sincere, if God made provision for ALL their sins in the death of Jesus Christ. saying that Jesus' death was "sufficient" for all, is not Scripture, but a Calvinistic cop out!Click to expand...
The Calvinistic thinking have no indication of who the elect are, so all are presented the gospel.
Page 3 of 9