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Featured Why [I believe] Premillennialism is false

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Saint of Circumstance, Oct 2, 2017.

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  1. Saint of Circumstance

    Saint of Circumstance Member

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    Yes, at some later time the living are caught up. The bible does not teach how long after.

    So you are teaching that THESE SCRIPTURES depict the Rapture?:

    Matthew 25:32-33
    31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.


    John 5:28-29
    28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
     
    #21 Saint of Circumstance, Oct 12, 2017
  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Can you please post where I did so?
     
    #22 TCassidy, Oct 12, 2017
  3. Saint of Circumstance

    Saint of Circumstance Member

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    It was a question based on this comment of yours:
    Since Matthew 25:32-33 and John 5:28-29 depict the resurrection, and you are teaching that the rapture IS the resurrection, How can you claim anything BUT that these verses depict the rapture?

    Or, do you claim the rapture happens BEFORE (perhaps even 1000 years before) Matt 25:32-33 and John 5:28-29 take place?

    It surely can't be both
     
    #23 Saint of Circumstance, Oct 12, 2017
  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    The dead in Christ will rise first then we, which are alive and remain, will be caught up together with them in the air.

    Not sure how that can be made any plainer.
     
    #24 TCassidy, Oct 12, 2017
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  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Seems that many here think we historical premils are the same as our Dispy friends!
     
    #25 Yeshua1, Oct 12, 2017
  6. Beauclair Bouchard

    Beauclair Bouchard New Member

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    Ahh Baptist fellowship.
     
    #26 Beauclair Bouchard, Oct 12, 2017
  7. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    The number 1,000 is used literally very rarely indeed in the Bible as a whole (e.g. Psalm 50:10; 90:4). I see no reason to suppose that it is used literally in Rev. 20. IMHO just about all the numbers in Revelation are symbolic. There are loads of 7s 10s and 12s; where are the 9s, 11s and 13s?
     
    #27 Martin Marprelate, Oct 13, 2017
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  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    In Rev 20 - the saints are real, the earth is real, God is real, the wicked are real, the lake of fire is real, the resurrection is real, the judgment is real, the 1000 years is real, the devil is real... etc.
     
    #28 BobRyan, Oct 13, 2017
  9. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Were the seven churches of Revelation 2 - 3 literal?
    If so why not "the one thousand years"?

    BTW in this case the definite article is used with "the one thousand years" : τὰ χίλια ἔτη

    HankD
     
    #29 HankD, Oct 13, 2017
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    The 7 churches in Rev 2-3 were literal and were also symbolic of different ages of the church over the past 2000 years.
    The dragon is symbolic in Rev 12 - but the devil in that chapter is literal ... real
    The saints (as the children of the woman) in Rev 12 are real
    The woman is a symbol for the saints. both terms used in Rev 12.

    17 So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

    Jesus is real in that chapter.
    Commandments of God are real in that chapter.
    God is real in that chapter.
    Dragon -- is said "in the chapter" to represent Satan.
    And the 1260 years (day for year in all apocalyptic texts) same day-for-year as in Daniel 9 (70 weeks = 490 apoc-days = 490 literal years pointing to the first coming of Christ in Daniel 9)
     
    #30 BobRyan, Oct 13, 2017
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I have always taken it to be literally an extended long period of time.
     
    #31 Yeshua1, Oct 13, 2017
  12. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

    14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

    14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

    14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

    14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

    14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Brethren have been arguing about this same and similar subjects on here for years... The church I grew up in never talked about the Millennial, pre, post or the thousand year reign... These scriptures don't teach it... Y'all step aside I'm bound for Glory... Brother Glen:)
     
    #32 tyndale1946, Oct 14, 2017
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  13. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    SO?

    Christ is descending and we will meet Him in the air with the the dead in Christ. Simple.
    This will be on the LAST DAY, John 6
    No need to add extra biblical bits to suit your theory.
    Ignore Darby
    Ignore Larkin and his charts
    Ignore Scofield and HIS "bible"
    Ignore all preachers that follow thier teachings
    You will then be free to follow the scripture and not Jesuit teachings.
     
    #33 David Kent, Oct 15, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
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  14. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Just explaining the term "rapture" and its source.

    I gave up on the Jesuits when I separated from the Catholic Church 55 years ago.
    Gave up on Darby, Larkin, Scofield and their teachings many years ago.

    Still futurist, premil (pre-chialist :) ).

    HankD
     
    #34 HankD, Oct 15, 2017
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  15. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    Yes but there are also symbolic of the Church through the ages. The great error of the preterists and futurists is that believe that God has nothing to say to the tens of millions, perhaps hundreds of millions of faithful saints who died in the most horrific ways during the persecutions of Rome, pagan and Rome papal, The Turk, Islam, Communist, Fascist, and all the other ists.

    Not only is a a gross error, but extremely sad that has happened because Christians, do not recognise that it is their brothers and sisters in Christ that the book is about. Not about the Jews.

    Christ's Church is the great work of God, based on the life, death and resurrection of Christ my Saviour.
     
    #35 David Kent, Oct 15, 2017
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  16. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    If you believe in Pre trib you are still following them.

    It is their teaching.
     
    #36 David Kent, Oct 15, 2017
  17. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    Do you believe that Larking's charts are sound teaching?
     
    #37 David Kent, Oct 15, 2017
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    No, they are not. The "Historic Recapitulation" theory is pure nonsense. Anyone with even a tiny bit of knowledge regarding history knows the "ages" don't fit. The churches of Revelation were churches that existed in John's time. And it is entirely possible that there were all such churches all down through the ages of ecclesiastical history and that all types are represented by various churches today.

    Why would anyone think Hyper-Dispensationalism is sound? Even the Dispensationalists believe Clarence Larkin is wrong
     
    #38 TCassidy, Oct 15, 2017
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  19. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    I didn't realise that. On another board there is one who is always posting about Larkin's charts he has even made his own charts.

    I have heard of Hyper-Dispensationalism but never heard it described, perhaps you can explain it?

    I am always ready to learn.
     
    #39 David Kent, Oct 15, 2017
  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    There are two different types of Dispensationalism which go beyond the Dispensationalism of Darby, Scofield, et alii.

    There is Hyper Dispensationalism which sees two different "plans of salvation." One now that is by grace and one in the future Millennium where salvation will be by works. And sees many different "plans of salvation in the Old Testament.

    The second is Ultra Dispensationalism that dates the church sometime after Acts 2, and in its extreme form sees additional dispensations in the book of Acts.

    There are differences of opinions regarding the definitions of Hyper and Ultra Dispensationalism. Many consider Larkin to be main stream as Scofield seemed to teach different requirements for salvation in the different dispensations.

    Many believe Ultradispensationalism applies only to the Acts 28 time for the beginning of the church (verse 27).
     
    #40 TCassidy, Oct 15, 2017
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