This doesn't have anything to do with the OP and I'd be happy to take it elsewhere but webdog, dude, Edwards is a thoroughly orthodox theologian. His theological positions are well within the bounds of orthodoxy and, honestly, his work on the economic and immanent Trinity defined the theological categories themselves.
I'd hesitate to say he's "hyper-Calvinist" because a) I haven't read that aspect of his work that well and b) we need to carefully define the hyper part of that.
Anyhoo, just saying...oh and if you want a citation about him being the most brilliant American theologian Gonzalez Christian History or History of Christian Thought would probably suffice. There are lots of others, but Gonzalez is a recognized authority.
Why is there evil in the world?
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Luke2427, Nov 16, 2010.
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preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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We are all, no matter our theological proclivities, nothing without a saving relationship with our savior. God bless You brother and all who contribute to the discussion. My desire is that we all keep the "ugliness" of our human side from being to brash and destructive towards fellow believers. -
My friends, whatever your view of sovereignty, to say that God planned and set evil in motion is to say He created evil. Whatever nuance of language is used to justify it, if the meaning is that God willed, wanted, and created evil, then this is heresy. Flat out, plain heresy. Our view of sovereignty must stop before we get to the point of God planning evil.
Such teachings as I've seen here reaffirm my repulsion to such doctrine, and increases my resolve against it, for it ultimately has God the author of sin, a thoroughly distasteful concept. It shows a theology gone to seed. I say begone with it. I will not continue such a discussion. I am out of this one. -
preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Listen, I'm not an Edwards scholar but this seems questionable to say the least. -
God is glorified by His creation and His Son. Evil is an abomination to God. He hates sin and wickedness. It does not glorify God.
How does the rape and murder of a child for example glorify God? Your theology is messed up. -
We have to remember that evil isn't plan B. God isn't using evil because He is settling for it. It was always part of his plan. (why else would you plant that tree in the garden) Jesus Christ being the savior of the world was plan A. God didn't change his plans because Adam sinned, it was always part of his plan. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Any Scripture for your maybe? -
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Are you saying that having a world with evil wasn't part of God's original plan?
btw...I believe in free will as long as you define it correctly. We are free to choose anything we want within our nature.
With the problem of evil...
1. God is good
2. God is great
3. Evil exists
It's hard to understand this. It's one of these things that it's easy to understand any two of these, but to add a third one messes with our brains. How can a God that is good and all powerful allow evil. Is He not big enough to not allow evil in the first place? It's something that we will not ever fully understand. My answer is that God allowed evil to show his mercy, his love to the world. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Luke....now you are a Hyper Calvinist.....LOL
That means you dont pray....do you pray brother? -
Amy.G said: ↑I don't understand this thinking. How is God honored by evil?
God is glorified by His creation and His Son. Evil is an abomination to God. He hates sin and wickedness. It does not glorify God.
How does the rape and murder of a child for example glorify God? Your theology is messed up.Click to expand...
How is there a cross and an empty tomb if there is no evil?
Evil is abominable to God but he ordered and designed the universe that it would come to pass so that Christ could display the great grace of God and receive eternal praise for having done so.
It is the most glorious plan any human has ever heard of.
Have you watched the video in the OP? It will answer the question better than I can. -
jbh28 said: ↑I didn't say that was the only reason. Do you think that God, who is completely sovereign, had to settle because of sin? Do you have any Scripture that Christ defeating sin was plan B? I see it in Scripture as the ONLY plan. If you have Scripture for an alternate plan then lets see it.
Ah, so you would say that God, to get people to choose to love him, would have to have evil in the world because that's the only way. Couldn't God have created a world without evil and man still choose to love him? Why even give the possibility of evil.
Any Scripture for your maybe?Click to expand...
She lambastes us for saying God wanted evil to come to pass so that by the eradication of it and the saving of his people from it He might magnify his own grace
- and yet she contends that God needed evil because he needed to be loved by a free will choice.
Which position paints God to be more needy? -
Humblesmith said: ↑My friends, whatever your view of sovereignty, to say that God planned and set evil in motion is to say He created evil. Whatever nuance of language is used to justify it, if the meaning is that God willed, wanted, and created evil, then this is heresy. Flat out, plain heresy. Our view of sovereignty must stop before we get to the point of God planning evil.
Such teachings as I've seen here reaffirm my repulsion to such doctrine, and increases my resolve against it, for it ultimately has God the author of sin, a thoroughly distasteful concept. It shows a theology gone to seed. I say begone with it. I will not continue such a discussion. I am out of this one.Click to expand... -
Earth said: ↑Luke....now you are a Hyper Calvinist.....LOL
That means you dont pray....do you pray brother?Click to expand...
According to the theopedia http://www.theopedia.com/Hyper-Calvinism historic Calvinism is contrasted with hyper Calvinism as follows:
Historic Calvinist position compared to Hyper-Calvinism
Historic Calvinists regard repentance and faith as the means by which the great commandment to love God and love our neighbor finds fulfillment. This duty to love God and neighbor existed before the fall and Adam certainly enjoyed the ability to do so. Man's love of God is therefore still obligatory, and the means through which it is to be realized, namely repentance and faith, are likewise obligatory. Man owes God his love and trust by the very fact that he is God's rational creature. Adam had the ability to love and trust God before the Fall. Man is still responsible to love and trust God even though, because of the Fall and while in an unregenerate state, he has lost the moral ability to do so. Therefore, contrary to hyper-Calvinism, fallen man is indeed duty-bound to repent and believe in Christ for salvation.Click to expand... -
jbh28 said: ↑Maybe he is looking at this at another angle. Evil doesn't glorify God, but mercy does. How can you be merciful without evil? How does rape and murder glorify God? In itself it doesn't, but defeating evil in the end does. But you can't defeat something that doesn't exists.
We have to remember that evil isn't plan B. God isn't using evil because He is settling for it. It was always part of his plan. (why else would you plant that tree in the garden) Jesus Christ being the savior of the world was plan A. God didn't change his plans because Adam sinned, it was always part of his plan.Click to expand...
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