then you didn't understand the Catholic faith when you were Catholic. Purgatiory is about sanctification. Not about salvation. I will venture forth in that 80% of Catholics don't really know their faith.
WHY Universal Reconciliation is wrong ?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by dan p, Jul 6, 2010.
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
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What you teach:
Negates the Great Commission.
Negates the need for evangelism.
Puts the local church in the position where all the members have to do is sit back and let God save the elect and condemn the wicked. Man doesn't have to do a thing.
You believe all unsaved are the enemies of God. All enemies of God are the objects of the hatred of God. All those who are the object of the hatred of God are forever condemned by God. Why even evangelize?
God is just a big bad hate-filled boogey-man that has no love for the unsaved. You have a terrible message for the unsaved. I don't know how you could ever witness to a lost person with your view of God. How do you do it?
What do you say?
God is your enemy. God hates you. You can't be saved. End of story. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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My authority for doctrine is always the Bible.
From the Bible's perspective purgatory is blasphemous. Christ died and paid the penalty for our sins in full. The RCC does not believe this (from a Biblical perspective). If they did, they would not have to be "purged" further or be cleansed from their sins. Where did Christ go wrong? Was not his blood sufficient enough to cleanse us from ALL of our sins?
No further sanctification is needed. He washed away ALL of our sins: past, present and future. He said on the cross: "it is finished." Why not believe him? -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
Now that you have this new and wonderful understanding we can speak sensibly. According to the Roman Catholic Church you are correct when you say -
Purgatory is about sanctification SO THAT the person needing it can make it to heaven and be saved, rather then go to hell.
It is all about SALVATION.
And it is also a complete lie. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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The RCC falls into this category when they claimed they were speaking of the Holy Spirit. This is what Paul said:
1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
--When you imply that the sufficiency of Christ is not enough you call Jesus accursed, and that is not of the Holy Spirit.
When I trusted Christ as Savior he sanctified me. He gave me positional sanctification. I was sanctified once and for all. I was set apart, made holy, called a saint of God, made a believer in Christ, given an inheritance, sealed by the Holy Spirit, made a child of God, born again into his family, justified by faith, and given many more promises than those. I was sanctified. My sins were forgiven: past, present and future. I was cleansed from all my sins: once and for all. They will never be held against me again. I will never lose my salvation. It is evident that you don't understand sanctification. I am already sanctified positionally.
However God calls every believer to a life of holiness. Though I was made holy, set apart from sin and called to be a saint, I still must live a life in this world that is holy. That is a growing process. There still must be growth in the believers life. That day to day process (which never affects one's salvation) is called sanctification also. It is a process; not his position in Christ. I am sanctified positionally in Christ. But there is a process of sanctification as well. The word is used in two separate ways.
Purgatory comes from the word "purged." Christ has already purged us from all our sins. It is blasphemous to think that the RCC can come up with a doctrine that can do more than Christ said he already did. Are they greater than Christ? -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
My authority for what Roman Catholic Church believes is based on the RCC
My authority for what Mormons believe is the Mormon church
My authority for what Islam beliefs is the Muslims themsleves
My authority for what Atheist belief are Atheist
My authority for what Agnostics believe are Agnostics
My authority for the bible is the Holy Spirit.
As far as sanctification I know scriptures calls us to a sanctified life. -
"Christ died and paid the penalty for our sins in full."
Now look at Scripture:
Hebrews 10:4-12 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
The blood of bulls and goat could never take away sins.
But, by one sacrifice, Christ took away our sins forever.
Nothing could be any clearer than the teaching given in this passage.
But the RCC makes a mockery of this teaching and substitutes a blasphemous doctrine instead, teaching that one must pay for their own sins. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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"The fool hath said in his heart: There is no God."
At salvation God gave us positional sanctification. It is once and for all.
There is also progressive sanctification which you referred to. But I also have positional sanctification and thus my sins are forgiven, once and for all. -
The teaching of the RCC is blasphemous. Every doctrine must be looked at through the eyes of the Bible. Otherwise it is useless. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
The problem is you misrepresent what other people believe and then preach the bible to a question not even asked.
That is Sanctamonious. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
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Thinking Stuff...
For some strange reason you are trying to use little linguistic mumbo jumbo games on us with your responses.
Why? are you a Catholic?
DHK and I are ex-Catholics. We cant be fooled. We were properly taught by the priests and nuns who taught us the wicked false teachings and idolatries of the Church of Rome.
We are now born again and know the truth. -
1. Note that it is our final authority. I have often quoted from other authoritative sources. But the Bible is the final authority.
2. Note that it is the final authority in matters of faith and doctrine. That excludes Math and Physics.
Your points are moot.
If the Bible is not the final authority many of your arguments would run like this.
I should believe that Christ is only a prophet and that Mohammed is greater than Christ because the Koran, the authority of Islam says it is. That is their authority and thus the authority you would use. Correct?
This would be your belief if we don't look at everything through the eyes of the Bible.
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