Will a Christian commit certain sins? PART TWO

[rbell]

Quoting John MacArthur's commentary on 1 Corinthians 6:

"1 Cor 6:9-10...This catalog of sins, though not exhaustive, represents the major types of moral sin that characterize the unsaved. The kingdom is the spiritual sphere of salvation where God rules as King over all who belong to Him by faith. All believers are in that spiritual kingdom. People whose lives are characterized by the above iniquities are not saved. While believers can and do commit these sins, they do not characterize them as an unbroken life pattern. True believers who do sin, resent that sin and seek to gain the victory over it."

Well said. And MacArthur's teaching avoids two pitfalls that a few folks IMO seem to fall into:

1. The classification of "mortal" and "venal" sins...the bigbaddies and the notsobaddies.
2. The unavoidable conflict that proponents of "lists of sins Christians can't do" will run into in light of 1 John 1:8.

If by "commit" you mean "have a life characterized by" said sins, we are in agreement. If you still insist that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a Christian to commit:

• fornication,
• idolatry,
• adultery,
• effeminate behavior,
• homosexuality,
• thievery,
• coveting,
• drunkenness,
• reviling,
• extortion,
• envy,
• revelry,
• possess arrogant eyes,
• lying,
• shedding innocent blood,
• plotting wicked schemes,
• have eagerness to do evil,
• false witness,
• stir dissent among brothers,
• uncleanness,
• lewdness,
• sorcery,
• hate,
• encourage contentions,
• jealousy,
• wrathful outbursts,
• selfish ambitions,
• dissension,
• heresy,
• envy,
• murder...

I have to disagree with you and go with MacArthur's interpretation of Scripture.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Then what do we do with this verse in light of MacArthurs' claim that a Christian will commit the sins listed above?

John 10:4 (KJV) And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
John 10:5 (KJV) And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

Jesus said His sheep will not listen to the voice of a stranger but will flee from him.

MacArthur has the sheep listening and following the stranger when the stranger tempts them.

 

[rbell]

Then what do we do with this verse in light of MacArthurs' claim that a Christian will commit the sins listed above?

Jesus said His sheep will not listen to the voice of a stranger but will flee from him.

MacArthur has the sheep listening and following the stranger when the stranger tempts them.

No, MacArthur rightly interprets the passage, and it is consistent with 1 John 1:8:

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

The verses in John 10 that you quote speak of the sheep following the shepherd...it does not speak of their sinlessness.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Ah, but in order for the sheep to sin, they have to hear the tempter and give in to the temptation.

 

[rbell]

So a Christian can't give in to temptation either?

Well, here's the list again:

So, according to how some interpret, a Christian cannot commit these sins: fornication, idolatry, adultery, effeminate behavior, homosexuality, thievery, coveting, drunkenness, reviling, extortion, envy, revelry, arrogant eyes, lying, shedding innocent blood, plotting wicked schemes, eagerness to do evil, false witness, stirring dissent among brothers, uncleanness, lewdness, sorcery, hate, contentions, jealousy, wrathful outbursts, selfish ambitions, dissension, heresy, envy, murder.

Now...are you saying they can't give in to temptation?
Or are there other sins we need to add to this list?

I'm sorry...I'm about to get controversial. I just believe that if we were all honest with ourselves, we would admit that AT SOME POINT in our Christian walk each of us have committed one of the "uncommitables" listed above. Most of us have avoided being murderous or gay. But I doubt that any of us have batted a thousand with regards to envy, covetousness, wrathful outbursts, selfish ambition, or haughty eyes.

Does that diminish the fact that those are sins, and are an affront to a Holy God? Nope. But I know I'm not batting a thousand...and I'm so thankful to God for His forgiveness and grace.

 

[DHK]

rbell,

The sad truth is that the writer clearly states that those who commit those sins will not inherit the kingdom of God. So a Child of God could not commit them else that one would not be a Child of God.

I am glad that this theology is really not taught in the Bible, for heaven would be an empty place. I also believe that if those here believe this theology are not being honest with themselves if they think that they are going to make it.
The list includes those that:
lie, and
covet.
Lying and coveting are two of the most common sins even among Christians. In fact the Bible says that all men are liars, and that includes Christians. You can't live your life without telling lies. You are not sinless. You are not perfect. Who here is without sin? Who here is sinless? I guess you don't have need for a Savior if you have no sin. Because we are saved, doesn't mean our sin nature is eradicted and we suddenly become sinless saints. There is no such concept taught in Scripture.

What is taught:
1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

God made a provision for Christians that let down their guard and sin. We go to God the Father through Jesus Christ our advocate. But we will sin. He knows we will. That is why 1John 1:9 is in the Bible.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[Amy.G]

Rbell:

But I doubt that any of us have batted a thousand with regards to envy, covetousness, wrathful outbursts, selfish ambition, or haughty eyes

Maybe the problem is with your definition of these sins.

envy: a feeling of discontent or covetousness with regard to another's advantages, success, possessions, etc.
covetousness: Excessively and culpably desirous of the possessions of another.

wrathful: strong, stern, or fierce anger; deeply resentful indignation; ire.
2. vengeance or punishment as the consequence of anger.

selfish: devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.
ambition: an earnest desire for some type of achievement or distinction, as power, honor, fame, or wealth, and the willingness to strive for its attainment.

haughty: disdainfully proud; snobbish; scornfully arrogant; supercilious.
disdain: to look upon or treat with contempt; despise; scorn.


I think we hear these words so often that we have been desensitized to their actual meaning.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

so then you must believe like J.Jump does... that a child of God can spend 1000 years outside of the kingdom of God.

It is quite obvious that those who commit those sins will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I am sure Jump, Evans, and others are glad you believe the child of God can miss the Kingdom.

I, on the other hand, do not believe the Child of God can commit those sins that keep one out of the kingdom.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

The Scripture does not say only the unbeliever who does these things shall not inherit the kingdom.

It says they that do these things. That includes every man, woman and child whether they claim to know the Lord or not.

If they are listening to another instead of the shepherd and giving heed to his commands, they are in opposition of what Christ said.

 

[rbell]

so then you must believe like J.Jump does... that a child of God can spend 1000 years outside of the kingdom of God.

It is quite obvious that those who commit those sins will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I don't...but thanks for putting words in my mouth. You're great at that. Must be from all the practice.

It is quite obvious that those who commit those sins will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Quite obvious to your interpretation. Mine is along John MacArthur's thinking. One whose life is characterized by said sins--it is doubtful they know God. Christians can and do commit some of these sins.

I am sure Jump, Evans, and others are glad you believe the child of God can miss the Kingdom.

It's times like this I remember why I like to limit my debates with you. You have trouble carrying on mature conversations without childish antics. I guess that stuff doesn't keep you out of the kingdom, though.

I, on the other hand, do not believe the Child of God can commit those sins that keep one out of the kingdom.

Fine. We'll agree to disagree.

 

[ituttut]

Here I agree. The man was living in continued sin.

John, in his 1 Epistle states that the Child of God cannot sin. Many translate this as 'cannot continue in sin.' If this is the case, then this proves the man could not have been born of God... he was not a Christian... only among the Christians.

It looks to me that the man didn't continue to sin, and this church did take him back. If not, then I'm sure Paul would have proved their hypocrisy of refusal for we see there is other fornication going on in II Corinthians 12:21. "And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed." Why is Paul wasting his time exhorting these Corinthians if they are all going to hell? What about that look we make just a little longer than necessary, that flirt that really is not just innocent, the gossip and behind the back remarks of jealousy, the little "white lies", the love of money and self.

Children say the darnest things, and Preachers hear the darkest things. Just think what a Priest in the Catholic church must hear. Just because we go to church doesn't mean we are all perfect. Notice also I John tells, "if we say we have no sin we are lairs". Who will dare throw that first stone?

 

[ituttut]

The world would be "shocked" to hear Christians say they are capable of adultery, molesting children, stealing, killing etc.
If that were the message being preached when I was in the world, then I would of just stayed there.

The Lord said to "cease to do evil and learn to do good". Cleanse your hands ye sinners. If you die in your sins, where I am you cannot come. That is the kind of doctrine I preach and believe.

He says today if we believe in His name, we will be saved. He died for our sins, so if He did, how can we die in them. Today He says we are dead to the law, and to sin. This is the "Body Church" we belong to. Being sealed who is strong enough to break that seal. Satan is powerful, but not that powerful.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

even the devils believe the name of Jesus but are not saved. it takes more than belief.

 

[ituttut]

True. David was not even a Christian. David was righteous through faith in God.

Hebrews 11 says David and others Through faith "subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions." David is a Jew and is "justified by faith". David did not know the name of his Lord, Jesus Christ, and how can we have him coming through the faith of Jesus, for Jesus had not shed His blood?

 

[ituttut]

even the devils believe the name of Jesus but are not saved. it takes more than belief.

Faith in Him makes it possible, for it is His faith that we come through. The devils knew Him before He shed His blood. Too late for them, however for Christ didn't die for them, but He did for us. We should be ever so thankful to God our Father, our Savior for His Love for us that He provided a way by His Holy Spirit, to come before His throne, through our Savior Lord Jesus Christ.

Gotta' get to bed now.

 

[Rex77]

Quote by rbell
--------------------------------------------
So if you don't mind...go ahead please, and list below all the sins that it is impossible for a Christian to commit. Thanks.
---------------------------------------------

It's an unkown number of sins, committed by some else.

 

[EdSutton]

Quote by rbell
--------------------------------------------
So if you don't mind...go ahead please, and list below all the sins that it is impossible for a Christian to commit. Thanks.
---------------------------------------------

It's an unkown number of sins, committed by some else.

Ed quote "Heh! Heh!"

Unfortunately! Kinda' reminds one of the old 'beam in the eye' bit, don't it!:tear:

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

I mostly stick with the Ten Commandments for I believe to "love your neighbor" would take care of about all of those others. Yes, we can be tempted but for our temptation, He makes a way for our escape.

I was wondering, we always think of someone else in these sins but how many pastors, preachers or teachers would get up in front of their own congregation and say: "I must tell you congregation, that I will try my best and think I can make it but there is a chance if given the right opportunity, that I might "hit" on your wives, so keep them kinda close to you.

I wonder how long they would remain pastor?

 

[Brother Bob]

Thank the good Lord some are wakening up.


Southern Baptists urged to root out molesters
Advocates for sex abuse victims in Roman Catholic Church shift their focus

The Chicago-based Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests has started a campaign to call attention to alleged sex abuse committed by Southern Baptist ministers and concealed by churches.

SNAP presented a letter Monday to Southern Baptist Convention executive committee members in Nashville, asking the group to adopt a zero-tolerance policy on sex abuse and to create an independent review board to investigate molestation reports.

Its a shame that "outsiders" must play he role of Apostle Paul and tell the church to rid themselves of such.

 

[Amy.G]

I mostly stick with the Ten Commandments for I believe to "love your neighbor" would take care of about all of those others. Yes, we can be tempted but for our temptation, He makes a way for our escape.

I was wondering, we always think of someone else in these sins but how many pastors, preachers or teachers would get up in front of their own congregation and say: "I must tell you congregation, that I will try my best and think I can make it but there is a chance if given the right opportunity, that I might "hit" on your wives, so keep them kinda close to you.

I wonder how long they would remain pastor?

Amen. The poster that said he was capable of molesting his son, should probably not be alone with his son. If one truly believes he is capable of these sins, he should never allow himself to be alone with children.