I think it's VERY important that Christians agree that clones have souls.
Given that identical twins are clones, I'd say that's pretty much a philosophical truth.
Will Cloned Humans Have Souls?
Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by AVL1984, Nov 26, 2002.
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Johnv you dont understand what I am saying. What you have described is conception taking place. These are all natural events.
Scientists cannot tell you why these events cause life. Life happens in this fashion for sure. but simply watching a process does not explain how the gift of life is given. -
Cloning is not the creation of Life. It is making a decision to put the living matter together and let nature take its course.
This is the same process a couple follows as they decide to make a baby. The tools are different but the means and end are the same. Cloning is still a natural process.
It won't be natural if ever man can create life from scratch... Then the question of soul existence should be addressed, but not now.
True unnatural life creation is bring a cell to life. This is not done in the process of Cloning as the egg is already living.
[ November 30, 2002, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: post-it ] -
Originally posted by BrianT:
I think it's VERY important that Christians agree that clones have souls. If human cloning starts to happen in larger quantities, if the church is wishy-washy on this issue, then major ethical problems could arise because then killing a clone might not be considered "murder", etc.Click to expand...
Sorry to be 12 days behind you, brother, but at least I'm behind you!
[ December 11, 2002, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: Refreshed ] -
Originally posted by Johnv:
I think it's VERY important that Christians agree that clones have souls.
Given that identical twins are clones, I'd say that's pretty much a philosophical truth.Click to expand...Identical twins versus cloning
A century ago no one considered implanting embryos, surrogate parenting, manipulating DNA, or cloning. Now, these are not merely ideas, they are reality. But unless you have kept up to date in scientific circles, the specifics of these procedures may be unclear. This paper is not an attempt to explain genetic engineering, it is simply for those of us who are not educated in this field and wish to see how all these new scientific breakthroughs may effect us in the future.
The difference between identical twins and clones
Is there a difference between identical twins and clones? According to the Roslin Institute identical twins are natures clones. Lets take a look at this for awhile. What is an identical twin? What is a clone? What are the similarities and the differences?
The forming of identical twins
Identical twins are formed when one egg is fertilized by one sperm. After fertilization, the egg splits. No one knows why this happens, but it does. Each twin will share exactly the same DNA. They will look alike right down to hair color and eye color. According to Charles Arthur and Jeremy Laurance, “Identical twins have identical DNA, because they start as a single cell- a fertilized egg - which then divides into two.”
The thing about identical twins that sets them apart is the fact that they are not “identical”. Just like you and me, every individual is different. Identical twins may have different personalities, prefer different activities and may also behave differently.
How to make a clone
The result of cloning is similar to that of an identical twin - the same DNA. But making a clone is different than the making of a baby. What happens is that the nucleus of a cell is removed and replaced with another cell. Since the original cell contained no DNA, the resulting clone has only DNA from one source. Thus creating an exact duplicate of the original cell donor.Click to expand... -
The thing about identical twins that sets them apart is the fact that they are not “identical”. Just like you and me, every individual is different. Identical twins may have different personalities, prefer different activities and may also behave differently.
Correct. Identical twins, from the moment of conception, are impacted upon by nurture. No two individuals have the same environmental, societal, physical, and mental exposures, hence no two people appear or act exactly the same. The same would be true of an individual resulting from a cloned dna source. That person would have completely different extrenal exposures from the donor. Hence, that person would not act or look exactly like the original. -
Originally posted by SheEagle911:
“Identical twins have identical DNA, because they start as a single cell- a fertilized egg - which then divides into two.”Click to expand...
Therefore, conception is not the only time nor the only circumstance a Soul can be created. This also opens the possibility that a soul/spirit could be created at a later time also.... like at First Breath. -
Could the clone of a Calvinist become an Arminian?
I'm just kidding folks! :eek: -
If you clone someone from Armenia, and raise them in the Reformed Church, would they be an Arminian Calvinist???
Doh!!!!!! I better stop!!!! -
Originally posted by post-it:
Therefore, conception is not the only time nor the only circumstance a Soul can be created. This also opens the possibility that a soul/spirit could be created at a later time also.... like at First Breath.[/QB]Click to expand...
Murph -
Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
glad to see that your abortion views haven't changed after all. Or have I misunderstood the implication of "first breath"?
MurphClick to expand...
My understanding of when life begins didn't change,I don't think it begins until first breath. What you might remember me saying is that I changed my mind about it not being a sin.
One doesn't change the other. It isn't a sin to abort because a fetus is alive since it really isn't, but rather it is a sin because the Government implies it is wrong since they now define a fetus as a person with equal rights. Therefore, it is considered a sin according to Romans 13.
Just as speeding is not a sin because it is wrong to move a great speed, but because we are told to obey our leaders rules, otherwise we act against God. -
So in short your stance is still that abortion if it were deemed legal by the government would not be sinful because life doesn't begin until first breath. Please correct me if I am incorrect.
Murph -
Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
So in short your stance is still that abortion if it were deemed legal by the government would not be sinful because life doesn't begin until first breath. Please correct me if I am incorrect.
MurphClick to expand... -
If cloning is not creating a living being by taking sperm and egg and joining them to make a human life as God created it to be then how can a true clone be a true human being? Do you Think God will bless man's efforts to be a god by giving a soul to something man created as a mockery of God's creation. I do not. A clone is in no way procreation as God made man and woman capable of doing.
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