Let's use common sense here. You mentioned that the accusers would not have called Him a drunkard if he was not drinking. Let's assume that it is okay to drink wine. Should you drink it till you get drunk, no. Even you said drink in moderation. What was Jesus doing getting drunk. Well, he wasn't. The scribes and Pharisees who were calling him a man that was gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners, were proud conceit of themselves. So you are believing what scribes and Pharisees said about Jesus, not what scripture characterizes him as.
Wine and gambling
Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by sandrocksam, Dec 26, 2003.
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The Bible warns against drinking wine to excess.
The Bible condemns drunkenness.
Drunkenness is a sin.
Jesus was without sin.
End of story. -
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I hope you understand now.
Psalm 104:14-15 (ESV)
[14] You cause the grass to grow for the livestock
and plants for man to cultivate,
that he may bring forth food from the earth
[15] and wine to gladden the heart of man,
oil to make his face shine
and bread to strengthen man's heart.
Proverbs 3:9-10 (ESV)
[9] Honor the Lord with your wealth
and with the firstfruits of all your produce;
[10] then your barns will be filled with plenty,
and your vats will be bursting with wine. -
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Date: 1549
Ballot comes from the idea of using a ball to cast a secret vote. -
sandrocksam said:
As for casting lots: You will note that the Apostles cast lots to replace Judas.
Be that as it may, even in the worst case it wasn't gambling. Gambling involves risk. In this case they risked nothing; rather, having done their "due diligence," they had narrowed the field of candidates for Judas' successor down to two. But at the end they had no further criteria left to decide between them, so, all other things being equal, they allowed Providence to decide. -
Ransom,
That's one of the finest apologetics following after Jesuit Casuistry I've ever seen.
HankD -
But if someone wants to be a bible literalist and say that the Bible condemns drinking of wine, then we can't come to the conclusion that the Bible forbids drinking of other alcoholic beverages like beer or vodka. The literalist can only say that the Bible forbids wine and drunkenness. The literalist cannot say the Bible forbids beer (so long as one doesn't become drunk).
Of course, the Bible DOES NOT forbid the consumption of wine or any other alcoholic beverage. It only only forbids their abuse (drunkenness). -
But neither does the Bible forbid the use or the abuse of other natural products from the earth such as marijuana, several species of hallucinogenic mushrooms, catcus plants and flower seeds.
HankD -
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HankD -
As Christians, we are to exercise self-control (it IS one of the fruits of the Spirit, after all). When one is intoxicated (be it from wine, beer, liquor, pot, 'shrooms, whatever), the individual no longer has control. To willfully place one's self in such a condition goes against the very character of Christianity.
As to gambling, games of chance are, in and of themselves, harmless. But it is when the intentions behind the game move into lust and greed that sin enters the picture. Even a game of tiddlywinks can be sinful if the motive behind it is sinful (the game itself is not the sin, but the intent of the heart is the sin).
Just my personal opinion and conviction. Take it for what it's worth.
In Christ,
Trotter -
Originally posted by gb93433:
"I am quite confident that you have already drunk alcohol and probably didn't even know it. A number of medicines have alcohol in them."
Yes, I have had medicines with alcohol in them and have been fully aware of it- there's nothing wrong with that. I Timothy 5:23 says "And drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities." An infirmity is an illness or sickness, and so the verse in I Timothy is simply saying that you should use alcohol for illnesses. -
The Bible clearly approves the drinking of fermented wine in moderation. "Grape juice," as we know it, was not invented until the late 1800s (invented by Welch). Before then, fermentation would take place almost instantly.
Jesus said that new wine needs to go into a new wineskin, and new wine into an old wineskin will cause the skin to burst? Ask yourself why. It's simple: new wine gives off gas because it's still in the process of fermenting. An old wineskin doesn't give the way a new wineskin will, and the gas will cause an old wineskin to break. Jesus's listeners knew this. -
Concerning the Apostles casting lots: I believe Jesus told them to not do anything until they received power from on high (Holy Spirit at Pentecost) I think they jump ahead of themselves.
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http://www.holyhemp.org/
The seed-bearing plant we call marijuana has been in existence since the third day of Creation, with God declaring it good. He then gave it to man along with all the other seed-bearing plants and trees on the sixth day, and declared it and them not only as good, but very good. Later in Genesis, he also confirms that he gave all green plants to man for food when he made his convenant with Noah.
http://www.rism.org/isg/dlp/ganja/resources/godandganja.html -
Originally posted by HankD:
That's one of the finest apologetics following after Jesuit Casuistry I've ever seen.
No casuistry at all. As I said - gambling involves risk. When you gamble, you risk a certain amount of your money on the probability of a chance event occurring in your favour.
The disciples, on the other hand, risked nothing on a chance event with two equal outcomes - either Barsabbas Justus or Matthias would take Judas' place. (Though they didn't consider it a mere "chance" event since it is implicit in the story that even those are under God's control.)
No risk, no potential jackpot, and therefore no gambling. It's as simple as that.
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