Time Magazine March 21, 1927
Religion: Baptists
"Women and John D. Rockefeller Jr. caused contention at the annual meeting of the Baptist Bible Union of North America in Calvary Baptist Church, Manhattan, last week.
A Fundamentalist from the Kentucky Bible belt, one Dr. J. W. Gillon, quoted the Scriptures to prove that women should be ousted from the pulpits: Let your women keep silence in the churches, for it is not permitted unto them to speak. ... (I CORINTHIANS 14:34) ... Suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man. ... (I TIMOTHY 2:12.)
One who believes that every word of the Bible must be taken literally is Rev. John Roach Straton, loud-speaking Manhattan Fundamentalist. He leaped to his feet, shouted: "You have a great deal to learn. One of the greatest preachers I ever heard is a 14-year-old girl [Uldine Utley, TIME, Feb. 28]. In fact, I think she is the greatest preacher in the country at this time. . . . We haven't yet opened our eyes to the writings of the New Testament in regard to women preaching."
The feminist problem was dropped when Rev. T. T. Shields of Toronto, Canada, President of the Bible Union, launched into an attack on John D. Rockefeller Jr. . . ."
Women pastors you like
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Bro. Curtis, Jun 9, 2009.
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Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
http://timeinc8-sd11.websys.aol.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,730085,00.html -
Why is it that women called to the ministry can only be pastors? I'm called to the ministry and minister I do. I hold a class for new moms that runs through their first year or two with a baby so that they can have support, teaching and fellowship with other moms in their same place. I'm following Titus 2 in that regard. I also, along with my husband ran our college ministry for years and worked with our youth. The two of us do premarital counseling and I do some counseling on my own. I run our homeschool group and will be planting a church with my husband sometime in the next year making me go from one of 9 pastor's wives to the primary pastor's wife. I know that will bring an entirely new opportunity for my ministry to grow. But I have not ever nor ever will be a pastor. Scripture doesn't support it but I support Scripture.
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Yes, a man can be called "education pastor", but a woman must be the "education director". A man can be "pastor of youth ministries", but a woman must be "youth ministry director". Hilarious.
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Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
One definition of pastoring is, " a person having spiritual care of a number of persons." [from dictionary.com] Surely you are caring for them spiritually, perhaps not with a formal title, but in a most appropriate way.
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pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
Many books before that God said that women are not to preach or speak in church.
You are changing God's word.
This is not about humility.
This is about rebellion, yours. -
JohnDeereFan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
"Music Pastor", "Youth Pastor", "Education Pastor", "Making Up Silly Applications For the Title of Pastor Pastor", etc.
Where is this in scripture? Clearly, the Biblical model is that the church has a pastor, individual departments and ministries do not. -
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Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
To me a rose by any other name is a rose.
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I have read the other posts that been added since I made my comment. So, I am responding those comments as well. I will give you the most appropriate example I know. On the basis of scripture (among other things), the Pharisees claimed that Jesus was not, and could not be, God's Messiah. They had decided, again, on the basis of scripture, what God's Messiah would be like, and they would accept no other possibilities. Jesus did not fit their expectations, so he could not be the Messiah.
When we assume that God's revelation has ended with that recorded in scripture, then we are assuming a level of knowledge to which we are not entitled. That is how we can attempt to limit God. What we are actually doing is preventing others from experiencing God to the fullest. It is not a question of God speaking God's heart to us. It is a question of whether we are paying attention. It is not a question of whether the scriptures are God's word. It's a question of whether they are God's only word or God's final word to us. When we run to the scriptures for answers to every problem we encounter, we run the risk of avoiding dealing with the problem directly. We may be applying a solution that may not be appropriate. Jesus was accused of breaking many sabbath and dietary laws. According to the Pharisees, he was a sinner, but we don't see it that way. I see this as being analogous to the issue of women pastors.
When my church was looking for a new pastor a couple of years ago, we considered several women candidates. Also, Molly Marshall was one of the supply preachers. We had some other women also. Ms. Marshall was very impressive as Crabtownboy has already mentioned. The others were a mixed bag, some good, some not so good. One was particularly bad. At least I guess she was. I couldn't understand a word she said. Our search committee, of which my daughter was a member, settled on a man who had more experience. He has been the right person to be our pastor.
Tim Reynolds -
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Scripture is completely sufficient for all matters of faith and practice and daily living. Anything else is heresy -
Tim Reynolds -
Thanks, Rev. It is a not totally unexpected honor to have you assign me to the heretic bench. :BangHead: To paraphrase one of your earlier posts to me, you have no idea how much time I spend inside or outside of scripture. Also, I see more ideology in your posts and those of your admirers. And, as for my being "completely ignorant", I refer you to the passage from Proverbs in my signature. It's possible that we may have found something that we agree on. If that is the case, then the BB may be about to implode. :D
Tim Reynolds -
Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Baptist4life Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Tim Reynolds
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