We see several places in scripture where people are made "whiter than snow," or "white as snow." I wonder how non-caucasian looking people, might react to the idea that white is good or pure, but darker tones are blemished?
Should we translate such "outdated cultural depictions" as "pristine as snow?
Isaiah 1:18
“Come now, and let us debate your case,”
Says the LORD,
“Though your sins are as scarlet,
They shall become as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They shall be like wool.
Here the translation could read "as pristine as snow" and avoid what might be seen as Eurocentric?
Matthew 28:3
And his appearance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow.
Here the translation could read "as pristine as fresh snow."
The real question is whether this alteration is going too far to become all things to all people so that we may win some?
Words with baggage
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Feb 23, 2023.
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The KJV translates Strong's G3022 in the following manner: white (25x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
- light, bright, brilliant
- brilliant from whiteness, (dazzling) white
- of the garments of angels, and of those exalted to the splendour of the heavenly state
- shining or white garments worn on festive or state occasions
- of white garments as the sign of innocence and purity of the soul
- of the garments of angels, and of those exalted to the splendour of the heavenly state
- dead white
- of the whitening colour of ripening grain
- of the whitening colour of ripening grain
- brilliant from whiteness, (dazzling) white
Maybe yes, maybe no, only God knows. - light, bright, brilliant
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I suppose we can leave "Black is beautiful" (that isn't politically offensive). -
Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
We should probably do something about Elijah calling baal's followers names on Mt. Carmel. He even said that baal was too busy using the bathroom to answer prayers, or maybe he was taking a nap.
Clearly Elijah didn't know about the modern 11th Evangelical commandment of "Thou Shalt Be 'Nice'!". Come to think of it John the Baptist, Jesus, Isaiah, Moses and Elisha weren't nice to name a few, but they were all honest. I wonder if there's a pattern... -
Many believers have seen wisdom in being inclusive in our language. With the history of light skinned people enslaving darker skinned people, and with all the tribalism advocates claiming "we" are in the right and "they" are in the wrong, inclusiveness seems necessary. On the other hand, putting our best foot forward might be taking our first step down the road of misrepresentation.
Clearly using gender inclusive language, when both genders were intended, is valid. Using pristine when white is used figuratively for purity also seems valid.
Is anyone aware of other terms that miss the mark of conveying inclusivity when intended? -
Scarlett O. ModeratorModerator
Besides, if you are going to change the word white, you would need to change the word red, too, as the contrast of the two colors is the point God is making.
All people - of all colors - come to the Bible with their own opinions, backgrounds, misinformation, and thoughts that would lead to error. That's because we are not perfect. We are the ones with the baggage, not necessarily the words.
The Bible is perfect.
I would say in this instance that the editing of God's Word from "white" to "pristine" would not be the thing to do. When I am teaching the Bible and I know that someone has a weakness of thought or is a new believer with MUCH to learn - I explain things as I go.
Here, I would say to the class, "Now remember, the word "white" isn't referring to anything else except a cleansing from sin."
To get bogged down in anything else takes the focus away from the totality of verses 16-20. That's the focus. God calls for a "reasoning together" with him. He calls for our repentance. That's the issue. -
White as snow or whiter than snow is used to present the idea of purity not whiteness. Thus translating the intended message seems important. Ditto for when masculine words are used to convey people of either gender. Using words with baggage that might be misconstrued seems unnecessary. Snow in its fresh or just fallen state is white, but we have all seen a pile of plowed snow beside a road that is brown as mud. Thus as pristine as fresh snow conveys purity.
I guess it comes back to the idea of translating the word's meaning as determined from context, or being aware of the danger of falling into root fallacy translation. Certainly sound arguments on both sides. -
I prefer translating the source word into the target language as accurately as possible, leaving the meaning to be interpreted by the reader.
The reason is the meaning of all verses are so easily discerned as "white as snow" meaning purity.
We probably need to note, as well, that the Hebrew people were not white. So the problem is not with archaic words but with today's warped culture.
I guess my concern would be with offering a "translation" that is more of an interpretation. I can think of places where this would be more of an issue than the passages discussed. -
If a word is used figuratively rather than literally, which meaning should the translators use to translate "accurately?" When fields are said to be "white" does it not mean like a cotton field with lots of white balls of cotton, or does it refer to the change to a lighter tone when the grain is ripe for harvest. Should the verse be more accurately translated to reflect the actual intended meaning, the fields are ripe for harvest?
When I was growing up, at the back of our Pastor's podium was the baptistry, and above that a stain class window of Jesus with blue eyes, looking very much a white man. Later in life I came across a book explaining that the mark of Cain was black skin. It has apparently been written to defend slavery in the south by "Baptists." People use ambiguity to pour false doctrine into God's pristine word.
On the other hand I like the term whitewashed which conveys covering over sin with the appearance of purity, by hypocrites. -
In the passage you mentioned there is a contrast of colors between crimson (red) and snow (white). To change “white” to pristine you lose the comparison.
White hair depicted the wisdom of age. Not many lived long enough for their hair to be completely white.
If the Bible says “white”, then keep it as white and explain to those you are teaching the various ways the word is used in context.
Peace to you -
Do you understand why many famous black athletes reject Christianity and embrace Islam? Could the implication that white is good and black is bad play a part in hindering Christ's ministry? How should we address it? -
I do understand why many people, athletes or not, reject Christianity and it has nothing to do with race.
What should we do to address it? Preach the gospel. Don’t change the words. Just preach what God has given us and trust God will move on people to convict them of the truth.
If you feel the need to bring race into the discussion and tell people “white as snow” doesn’t mean white people are better than black people, go right ahead.
I suspect very few people, black or white, ever thought it was referring to race.
peace to you -
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Snippet from Internet:
Why did people like Muhammed Ali and Malcolm X convert to Islam?
Christianity in much of Black America was - and sometimes still is - seen as a White man's religion. Muhammad Ali and Malcolm were at the peak of their fame during the civil rights era, in the 60s, when African Americans were trying to force the American public to see their struggles and support the fight for ending racial segregation, with its degrading second class status for African Americans. -
Race has nothing to do with the passage and changing the words, and you are changing the words, does nothing but confuse the meaning of the passage.
What are you going to do with the description of the risen Christ in Revelation that says His hair is “white like wool”?
Ooohhh we can’t have the word “white” described any part of Jesus, somebody might think the Bible promotes white supremacy!!!!
Your thread is more nonsense, as usual. I’ll leave you to it.
nuff said
peace to you -
Is the intended message to say Christ's hair is pristine as wool? Why present such absurdities?
Your posts are nonsense, as usual, and I hope you stop trying to derail biblical discussion. -
You apparently believe dark skinned people will look at the words of life, God’s Word, which states their sins are crimson but shall be made white as snow and somehow they will conclude there is a racial aspect to God’s Word, that God is saying white people are good but black people are evil.
IT IS NONSENSE!! It is not a biblical discussion, it is a political discussion. Or it is a social justice discussion. You are attempting to fix something that isn’t broken.
The only person making the connection between “white as snow” and race is Van.
peace to you -
Next using words that have less baggage is never addressed as a means of improving Christ's ministry.
People rejecting Christianity is said to be a non-problem and we should not attempt to fix it. Such a view is unbiblical. We are to strive to become more effective witnesses for Christ. -
The passage isn’t talking about race. You are inserting race to virtue single that you are sensitive to racial issues and in the process showing your own racial bias by thinking dark skinned people aren’t smart enough to understand the passage unless you clean up the “baggage” found in God’s word.
I’ll leave you to the nonsense.
peace to you -
Did I say the passage was about race? Nope. Why not address what I said?
Do you ever ask yourself why you attribute ulterior motives to others, rather than address their actual views?
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