Would you stay? 4

You know better. You are being ridiculous. It has been stated over and over that faith in Jesus is required for salvation

 

He said faith in Christ is not necessary for salvation? I must have missed that post. Actually, you are being disingenuous. Every Catholic on this board has been consistent in saying that faith in Christ is essential to salvation. However, we also are consistently saying that you must also follow Him as Lord (do as He said) as well. As has been said before, to not love God and love your neighbor as yourself is to reject Christ, wouldn't you say?

 

Thinkingstuff posted clearly what the 'official position' of the Catholic Church is on 'what must I do to be saved'. Do you even bother to read his posts? Go back and read it.

 

Jesus Christ is God.

We are held accountable quite justly. Not everyone has the same measure of faith.


Does the UNKNOWN GOD fly with you? Or is Paul mistaken?

23“For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ Therefore what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you. 24“The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;

Anyone who recognizes the truth that Jesus is God and rejects Jesus that is going to be trouble.

Good Samaritan would be the Good Christian.

You would have been born in middle east, you'd be swearing up and down Allah this and Allah that. You would believe Jesus just a prophet. And then which denomination presents Jesus truly? If we Catholics teach you the Muslim about Jesus and you reject us, so what? YOU call us devil worshipers and Catholics a demonic religion so you wouldn't call that rejecting Jesus at all.


But the guy who is taught God is the Grinch Jesus.... I can't fault him for rejecting.

Calvinist God, You believe that is the character of God? And if a person doesn't accept that counts?

And what denomination are you again? Is it in the Muslim yellow pages?

If you asked me to list out everything you believe, I'm probably going to get it wrong. And yet you expect someone with zero contact with you to nail the correct faith with 100% accuracy.

I doubt YOU if given the power would send anyone to hell for clearly not having "elect" privileges and conditions, much less God.

I happen to believe God is way more merciful and understanding.

Topping the understanding of God's mercy should be astronomical feat, not a piece of cake.

God is not going to fault cave man bob for not knowing who Jesus Christ is, nor your infant babies who you would send to hell on the same basis of ignorance, knowledge, Gnostic understanding.

God loves dumb and ignorant people too. Tell me you believe babies, infants and toddlers go straight to hell because they don't understand thus reject Jesus.

I've heard Baptist and Protestants tell me Calvinist God is a monster straight from hell, and vice versa.

Each will point a finger at each other and say THEY REJECT JESUS! We hear and say that here all the time.

Example:

I believe you reject Jesus when you state Love God and Love Neighbor is not necessary for Salvation.

But I don't FAULT you for rejecting Jesus, I think your mistake is based on ignorance. I think God loves you, understands your point of view. I would step up and take responsibility for not setting a better example, I'm going to tell God its not his fault, its more my fault then his.

 

Having been to Mass, it is a reference to the sacrament of the Eucharist (cracker and grape juice to this 'BaptiCostal') which they believe becomes the literal "body and blood" of Jesus. It is one of 'however many' sacraments the Roman Catholic church recognizes.

 

Does Romans 1and 2 offer some possibility that God may overlook ignorance?

• [Rom 1:18-20 NLT] 18 But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19 They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. 20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.
• [Rom 2:12-16 NLT] 12 When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God's written law. And the Jews, who do have God's law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it. 13 For merely listening to the law doesn't make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight. 14 Even Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. 15 They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. 16 And this is the message I proclaim--that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone's secret life.

While there is no salvation apart from Jesus, Abram never heard the name Jesus when he trusted God and it was credited to him as righteousness. I am just reluctant to say what God will not do if God has not first said it. Clearly one is not saved by faith in Islam or Buddha or the gods of Hinduism. I just wonder if a man might sense that there is something more, long for it, and find grace ... entering heaven as one through a fire with all his works burned up ... to finally meet the something he always knew was out there, and learn his name is Jesus.

[I am just a glass half-full kind of person.]

 

Never waver.

Just as it sounds, it would be direct sin. They would not be loving God or Neighbor.

Good Samaritan wouldn't violate this sin if he was following his good conscience. GOOD being very objective rather then relative on what God has provided.

If the GOOD Samaritan understood Jesus was God there is no doubt in my mind he would instantly become the GOOD Christian.


Another example is a Jehovah's witness I've known and studied with them. They can be very dedicated to God, perpetually on the clock for God. They however don't believe Jesus is God.

They have a bible, they have a church and those things tell them Jesus is not God.

I completely disagree with them. I'm certain they don't have my understanding. I believe them to be sincere in their beliefs.

But suppose a Jehovah Witness understands and concludes Jesus is God, If he were to reject Jesus, he is in trouble hell bound as he stands

I believe God has a perfect patience. We see this with Paul. He didn't accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, Had zero faith. was a Blasphemer, To Paul Jesus is NOT GOD at all. How is it that God in his mercy intervenes on behalf of Paul? God could have picked anyone for the job he doesn't seek the qualified.


1 timothy 1

12I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, 13even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief; 14and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus. 15It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all.16Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life. 17Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
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Whats the difference between Paul then and now? He tells you "I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief"

There is nothing special about Paul, he merit nothing, he had zero faith. The obvious thing is he was ignorant to the truth. And that is the motivation for God's MERCY even.

He didn't say God showed me mercy because I merit it or I had FAITH and accepted Jesus as Lord and savior. But because he was a ignorant unbeliever.

 

Someone once told me that Jesus was crucified between two thieves for our benefit. One thief was there so that we would not “presume” and the other thief was there so that we would not “despair”.

The topic of who God saves and how God saves them encourages a lot of both presumption and despair as we read our opinions into what God has not said. I would like to believe that there is hope that someone who has never had the opportunity to hear of Jesus might still have a chance to find God’s mercy (and posted so above) but we must admit that nowhere has God actually said that there is any door to the Father except through the Son. In fact, there are verses that clearly state exactly the opposite. What does John 3:18 say about the Jehovah’s Witnesses and those who do not believe in Christ? “They are judged already!”

We can hope that God might show them mercy, but we must not presume to confuse our opinions with God’s opinion.