Featured Would you support the baptism of a KKK leader if they had no intention of leaving racism behind?

While this is a hypothetical question at this time, it was a real question in my parent's Baptist church in rural East Texas about a dozen years ago, with one minor change: The pastor wanted to receive the Grand Dragon without baptism by immersion since the man was afraid of water. I don't know how it eventually turned out, because my mother decided to join the nearby Methodist church immediately after that question was announced.

It brings up several questions at once (1) Does one need to repent of obvious sins (as perceived by the congregation and local community) before entering into a church fellowship? (2) When presenting the gospel, should the evangelist bring up the call of discipleship to Jesus that brings obligations in terms of morality, propriety, and service? In other words, how should "counting the cost" and "taking up the cross" be presented? (3) Should baptism be skipped over if the candidate has a fear of water? (4) Should the church simply trust that the Holy Spirit will work everything out in the life of the presumed convert, and receive that person into the fellowship, at potential cost to the reputation of the gospel and the church in the eyes of the larger community? (5) What role does church discipline play?

The reason I ask this question it that wise answers to these questions and the ones you will likely raise will help all of us clarify church polity in terms of persons who want to follow Jesus but appear unconvicted of obvious (at least to us) sin.

Please select every option that applies and give comments and additional insights that explain your reasoning.

 

(1) I would have to have evidence that they are truly gluttons, not just heavy. There are medical conditions that can make a person grossly overweight.
(2) And if they are gluttons, it depends on their attitude towards gluttony. If someone is intentionally and consistently eating and drinking to extreme without any concern or remorse, I would hesitate. If someone has a large meal from time to time (such celebrations, such as Thanksgiving, and special events), I wouldn't hesitate.

Be aware that I actually don't have carefully developed notions on this subject. I am truly seeking guidance from others on this issue. I realize that the answer probably lies in handling things on a case-by-case basis, but when Christians in a fellowship disagree, it is helpful to have some policy to guide the congregation.

 

That's simply not true. For instance, Cushing's Disease (a ACTH-producing tumor on the pituitary gland) fills the body with excess cortisol, causing the body to improperly metabolize food. As a result, the body starts storing every bit of fat and most carbs instead of allowing it to be burned off, causing excess weight gain around the face, neck and torso. Short of not eating at all -- which would lead to death after a number of weeks -- there's no way to prevent weight gain. I know this personally, since I am recovering from Cushing's Disease. I was well over 400 pounds by the time I was able to get the tumor removed and the weight has been slowly coming off without any special effort or dietary change. My doctor advised me not to go on a significant diet but to let the body find its optimum weight. When the weight loss plateaus, we will reassess.

Thank you for that. I look forward to your thoughts on the issue as they develop.

 

I agree with this sentiment, but I think we should note that Graham offered salvation, not church membership. Church members bear responsibility to each other. Where does church discipline come in if this Klansman continues his work? What about those who live openly in sexual sin? What about those who make their living doing immoral things (not just referring to sex work, but evil businesses and practices)?

 

Alcohol on one's breath is not a sin in my understanding of the scriptures. Drunkeness is definitely a sin. So if someone was involved in a lifestyle of drunkenness, some members of the church need to step up and help the person find sobriety. If they want to be free of drunkeness, I would have no qualms baptizing them into the body of the local church.

 

Most Christians I have known have not received enough discipleship and teaching/training to walk in the Spirit instead of the flesh. Are you suggesting that there be a period of productive discipleship before baptism and church membership?


For what it's worth, I have know a number of Baptist preachers who have regularly and openly exhibited "...hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy..."

 

You simply don't know what you are talking about. Cushing's disables the metabolism of proteins and fats, so even persons on severe diets become malnourished while still gaining weight.

Like you, medical professionals make the same assumptions about patients -- if they are fat, then they are eating too much or too much of the wrong thing. Many cases that is true. After suffering from Cushing's Disease for about 14 years, I typed all of my symptoms into Google and recognized my symptoms in the entries on Cushing's Disease. Then I went through several rounds of medical professionals to get the appropriate tests and diagnosis. Even after I had a diagnosis of Cushing's Disease, with a significant tumor revealed on the MRI, the surgeon I went to told me everything was in my head and I needed to get off the sofa and stop eating chips. My symptoms started to become life threatening a month later, and I went to MD Anderson in Houston for a second opinion. They have experts in pituitary diseases there and they diagnosed me over the course of a month, scheduling surgery a few weeks later. The day after surgery, they drew a blood sample to check my cortisol levels and they were absolutely normal instead of highly elevated. The assumptions that people made about me nearly killed me. My kidney function was so bad I was headed toward dialysis within six months. My heart palpitations had grown so frequent, I was a poor surgical risk by the time they finally operated. I almost certainly wouldn't be alive now if I had not fought to get an appropriate diagnosis and treatment.

You should read up on Cushing's Disease in case you recognize it in someone else. Most doctors don't consider it because it is considered a rare disease. You may save a life.