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Featured Would you support the baptism of a KKK leader if they had no intention of leaving racism behind?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Baptist Believer, Jul 25, 2019.

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  1. A candidate needs to repent of obvious sin

  2. A candidate should understand how the call of Jesus will affect their lifestyle

  3. A candidate should be received without baptism

  4. A candidate's desire to follow Jesus should be the only criterion

  5. A candidate should be received into membership, but immediately face church discipline

  6. A candidate should not be received into membership but watchcare status, pending change in lifestyle

  7. My insights are expressed in a post below

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  1. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Cushings or not, you would not have weighed 400 lbs in a concentration camp.
     
  2. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    Scripture is clear, you cannot walk in the Spirit and in the flesh at the same time because they are in conflict with each other. How this of course doesn't mean that a saved person is perfect and that they will never walk in the flesh. Rather, a saved person will not desire to walk in the flesh. Their desire will be to walk in the Spirit. Anyone who continues to live in deliberate sin in defiance to God without any repentance or remorse has not demonstrated that they have "died to self". They may believe in God, "But even the demons believe and tremble". The issue is not that the individual was a member of the KKK, rather his having "no intention of leaving racism behind". This is no different than if the individual was a child molester who had absolutely no remorse or desire to leave child molestation behind. As Baptists, I think that we all can agree that the physical act of water baptism doesn't save. Rather, it is an ordinance which symbolizes their spiritual death and resurrection as new creations with Christ. Therefore, in my opinion, to baptize such an individual who has not demonstrated this work of the Spirit only gives them a false sense of security which encourages their wickedness and cheapens the ordinance itself.
     
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  3. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    A true Christian does not practice racism, homosexuality, or anything else that's outright sin.
     
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  4. NoQuieroUnQueso

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    At my church, the pastor won't baptize anyone who just walks in. He'll definitely invite them to come to our church, and time will tell what that person's true intentions are. I think time is a great way to test people, and over time a KKK member is either going to get to know the people in the church and eventually change their ways or get uncomfortable and leave.
     
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  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    In scripture it is always "repent and be baptized".
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    “And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;” Acts 17:26 (KJV 1900)

    “By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.” 1 John 3:10 (NASB95)

    “If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.” 1 John 4:20 (NASB95)
     
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  7. GoodTidings

    GoodTidings Well-Known Member

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    Not true. Over production of insulin can increase weight dramatically in those with diabetes. And one does not have to eat a lot food for that too happen a handful potato chips or a glass of diet soda can cause that to happen.
     
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  8. GoodTidings

    GoodTidings Well-Known Member

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    No one who hates someone of another race is saved. You cannot be an impenitent racist and claim to know Jesus as Savior and Lord.
     
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  9. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Insulin can not make fat without a calorie excess. It can dramatically change the point at which excess occurs. Without sunburned calories, you can't produce fat. It is a medical impossibility.
     
  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Isn't there a huge difference between being somewhat portly and hating people for no reason?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    The perception by the congregation is the only one which matters. One needs to state that they are willing to work on any obvious sins.

    I'd give them the NLT. That way I don't have to worry about "my presentation".

    No. But to be honest, I would have to really see something like that to believe it. Sounds like a lame excuse like "I have a fear of tests" or "I have a fear of work."

    Jesus accepted all sorts before he died. I would say yes unless one feels the desire to follow Jesus is not genuine.

    Last time I read, someone had to be sleeping with his stepmother before something happened. And even then, they later accepted him back.
     
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  12. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    I understand. A relative of mine was at one point proscribed hormone treatment for menopause when she didn't have. Another time a relative of mine was proscribed Prozac since the doctors thought she was insane because they couldn't find the cause of her pain. Later, a brand new doctor discovered it was gall stones several years later. After the gall bladder was removed, the pain went away.

    I trust doctors as far as I can get into medical school.
     
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  13. GoodTidings

    GoodTidings Well-Known Member

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    Insulin is produced due to sugar production in the body and a small amount of food that not necessarily high in calories, but that is high in sugar can produce excess insulin and that insulin is stored as fat. You don't have eat large amounts of food.

    Not everyone knows they are diabetic. You can be diabetic for years and not know it because it is a progressive disease. People who are diabetic are often overweight, not because they eat large quantities of food, but because their bodies are over-producing too much insulin.

    The artificial sweeteners in diet soda and 0-calorie flavored waters/drinks have same affect on the brain as sugary foods like a candy bar and it causes the body to release excess insulin each time. So even if your not overeating, even if your calorie intake is low, your body can still over-produce insulin and that excess insulin is stored as fat.
     
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  14. GoodTidings

    GoodTidings Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there is a moral distinction. The problem is that some people who perhaps want to deflect from a particular sin, always bring up common excesses and foibles. But there is a difference between being overweight and being a glutton.

    Over-eating is not "gluttony." Gluttony is the worship of food.

    Being overweight is not a sin. It is not a good thing, but the Bible doesn't claim that people who are overweight are living in sin.
     
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  15. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I know. My doctor successfully treats type 1 diabetes with diet. (Yes type 1)
     
  16. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    We hear this all the time that certain diseases cause body FAT.

    I don't believe it because you can't make SOMETHING (FAT) out of NOTHING, that's primordial creation and only God can do that.

    Also we have seen pictures of people in Nazi concentration camps who WERE on a VERY LIMITED DIET, I have yet to see a fat person among them (with cushings?).

    P.S. maybe you should find another doctor - second opinion?
     
  17. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    I would probably still weigh 400 lbs, but I would be dead.
     
  18. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    There are places that don't mention baptism, but they do involve identifying with Jesus, which is one of the main purposes of baptism. I think a good way to look at it is that baptism is one of the first acts of obedience/discipleship that a convert undertakes.
     
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  19. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    I generally agree, but it is possible for people to have enormous blind spots. Many of our Baptist ancestors in the South were racists, and when it was legal, owned slaves. I do not think we can simply claim they were not saved because the hardness of the human heart and the various types of blind spots that entangle all of us.
     
  20. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Regarding the fear of water, my mother said that she believed the man was afraid of water, because he looked ragged and dirty. I don't know if she was just being hypercritical because of her disgust with her pastor's* willingness to let this man continue in his KKK activities, or if that was objectively the case.

    * This was the last straw for her. The pastor had made frequent allusions to racist ideas and he seemed to studiously avoid dealing with anyone who was not white. There were no ethnic minorities in the congregation, including Hispanic folks, which is extremely unusual in Texas.
     
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