YAH the Census form is here

[SaggyWoman]

Why do the Asians get special differentiation?

Because we are special.

 

[Marcia]

it's illegal not to answer, breaking the law just because we want to is not acceptable as christians.

I've discovered there are a few people on the BB who think it's okay to break the law. Apparently, they put themselves above the law.

 

[donnA]

I do believe your right

 

[JohnDeereFan]

it's illegal not to answer, breaking the law just because we want to is not acceptable as christians.

How is it illegal not to answer? The Constitution doesn't give the government the right to ask the questions.

So how is it illegal to refuse to do something the law says you don't have to do?

Out of curiousity, did you know that when Paul was arrested, one of the first things he did was to appeal to his rights as a Roman citizen? So if Paul can appeal to his rights as a Roman Citizen, then why can't I, as an American citizen appeal to my Constitutional rights as defined in Constitution?

Furthermore, what business is it of the government whether or not we own or rent our home? Why is the government asking questions about our mortgage?

Do you realize that if the government went to my bank (assuming it's not one that the Mao-Bama regime has not taken over) and asked for that information, they'd have to have a subpoena? Why is it that they can't ask the bank without a subpoena, but I'm expected to hand over such private information just out of the goodness of my heart?

Why does the government need to know my telephone number?

Why do they need to know the relation of people living in my home? What possible legitimate reason could they have for this?

Why do they need to know our race and respective sexes? Again, what possible legitimate reason could they have for this?

Why do they need to know if a person living in our home "sometimes lives or stays somewhere else"? And for that matter, how do they define "living or staying somewhere else"? After all, I stay somewhere else when I go out of town on business.

What legitimate information does the government need from us that they can't already get from our taxes, our birth certificates, our drivers' lisences, our gun registrations, or, soon, our medical records.

I'm sorry you feel it's illegal to refuse to answer questions that violate our rights under the Constitution, but the fact remains that the questions do violate the Constitution and the government already has far more information about us than they should. Somebody has to put their foot down and say "ENOUGH!" For our family, that's me.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Sorry brother you are misinformed

I'm sorry you feel that way. If they government feels they have a case against me, I'm sure they'll come a'knocking soon enough.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I've discovered there are a few people on the BB who think it's okay to break the law. Apparently, they put themselves above the law.

When the law is illegal, yes.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Even Mary, Joseph, and Jesus had to answer to the census.

Are we any better than them?

Was the entity taking that census bound by the Constitution?

 

[Revmitchell]

I'm sorry you feel that way. If they government feels they have a case against me, I'm sure they'll come a'knocking soon enough.

It is not about how I "feel". It is about the long term history of these questions. I showed you where they are legal under both the constitution and the US Title Code 13. You make the claim they are not legal but have yet to back that claim up.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

It is not about how I "feel". It is about the long term history of these questions. I showed you where they are legal under both the constitution and the US Title Code 13.

US Title 13 isn't the Constitution. All US Title 13 says is that the government is required to keep confidential information confidential, not that they have the right to ask intrusive and Unconstitutional questions.

Nowhere does the Constitution say that the government can ask intrusive questions about our ethnicity or our mortgages.

You make the claim they are not legal but have yet to back that claim up.

See the Fourteenth Amendment.

The bottom line is this: I will tell them how many people live in my home, as required by law. Nothing else. If the government wants to choose me to be the first person ever prosecuted for not answering these intrusive questions, then I say bring it on.

 

[Gina B]

Oh come on now. More than likely, you willingly hand out much more information to strangers on a regular basis. You put all your info out there for job applications, to your doctor's office, your insurance company, hospitals, credit applications, store savings card applications, but it's the end of the world if those you elected to run your country ask how many are in your family and what your race/heritage is?
Yeah, that's logical, and so worth fighting for. :laugh:

Just out of curiosity, I have two questions for those that oppose the census.

1. Are you white?

2. Do you listen to Beck (and probably Limbaugh) rather faithfully?

Serious questions...I don't know that I've really met anyone opposed who wasn't white and didn't listen to one of those guys.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Oh come on now. More than likely, you willingly hand out much more information to strangers on a regular basis.

Probably. But if I do, it's voluntary and not under threat of fine or imprisonment, and there's nothing in the Constitution that keeps me from volunteering that information to private citizens.

You put all your info out there for job applications, to your doctor's office, your insurance company, hospitals, credit applications, store savings card applications, but it's the end of the world if those you elected to run your country ask how many are in your family and what your race/heritage is?

Right. And what's ironic is that the government can't go to any of those people and ask for my information unless they have a subpoena precisely because that information is considered private.

So, if it's considered private in that instance, why am I expected to just hand it over to them? Furthermore, since people here don't seem to care whether or not the fourth or fourteenth Amendments allow them to ask the questions in the first place, just tell me what legitimate reason they could have for asking me questions about my mortgage or about the people who live in my house.

 

[donnA]

the constitution does not forbid a census.
nor does it limit the census.
commit a crime if you like, and yes it is a crime. like it or not. no where does scripture give the the right to commit crimes when the laws do not violate scripture.

 

[padredurand]

I answered more personal and intrusive questions registering the warranty on my toaster than what is asked through the Census.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

the constitution does not forbid a census.

Nobody has said that it does.

nor does it limit the census.

Yes, it does. It states that the purpose of the census is to number the people for the purposes of representation in Congress.

commit a crime if you like, and yes it is a crime.

It may be a crime in Horse Cave, Ky, but it isn't a crime in Maryland.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Am I on your ignore list yet JDF?

How is it illegal not to answer? The Constitution doesn't give the government the right to ask the questions.

So how is it illegal to refuse to do something the law says you don't have to do? These two have been answered, so I'm not going there.

Out of curiousity, did you know that when Paul was arrested, one of the first things he did was to appeal to his rights as a Roman citizen? So if Paul can appeal to his rights as a Roman Citizen, then why can't I, as an American citizen appeal to my Constitutional rights as defined in Constitution? Okay, go sue or go yell at your Congress person. Both are legimate ways of changing the law. Simply being stubborn and failing to answer isn't. Render unto Ceaser and all that, ya know?

Furthermore, what business is it of the government whether or not we own or rent our home? Why is the government asking questions about our mortgage? Since the gov is now on the hook for a great deal of those mortgages, I'm guessing they have an interest in those numbers. They didn't ask how much you owe, just whether or not you do.

Do you realize that if the government went to my bank (assuming it's not one that the Mao-Bama regime has not taken over) and asked for that information, they'd have to have a subpoena? Why is it that they can't ask the bank without a subpoena, but I'm expected to hand over such private information just out of the goodness of my heart? Do you realize that if I wanted to know how much you owe on your house all I need is your name and your address and the ability to do a little math? Sweetie, your mortgage is a matter of public record!

Why does the government need to know my telephone number? They probably don't. But in the event they decide to call you because you failed to fully fill out the very simple form I filled out today, they won't have to waste the time looking it up in the phone book or on google! (time is money!)

Why do they need to know the relation of people living in my home? What possible legitimate reason could they have for this? Relations come and go, thus they are likely to not be permanant residents of the area being counted. The numbers of adopted children vs biological have a great effect on tax credits (did you know there was one for adopting a child?) and whether those credits need to be continued or if they can be cut.

Why do they need to know our race and respective sexes? Again, what possible legitimate reason could they have for this? Race numbers can answer questions about migrant populations, about whether certain races congregate in certain areas (Hispanics to agriculture, blacks to cities, whites to suburbs etc). This has an impact on things like public transportation, road building and housing. Gender questions answer things like how many single fathers are out there compared to single mothers, how many same sex vs hetrosex families there are etc.

Why do they need to know if a person living in our home "sometimes lives or stays somewhere else"? And for that matter, how do they define "living or staying somewhere else"? After all, I stay somewhere else when I go out of town on business. This is to try to ensure that they haven't counted someone twice. For instance, one of my son's spends 50% of his time here, 25% of the time at his biological mother's, and 25% at his biological father's. Because I know BOTH of them will count him as living with them, I didn't count him as living here, but he does.

What legitimate information does the government need from us that they can't already get from our taxes, our birth certificates, our drivers' lisences, our gun registrations, or, soon, our medical records. What about people who don't make enough to pay taxes, have children at home that might not be immediately registered, don't drive or own guns and rarely get sick? How do you propose to count them. This sounds good, but it isnt' as easy as you might imagine.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Render unto Ceaser and all that, ya know?

It isn't the rendering unto Ceasar what belongs to Caesar that's the problem. It's rendering unto Caesar what belongs to me that's the problem.

Since the gov is now on the hook for a great deal of those mortgages, I'm guessing they have an interest in those numbers. They didn't ask how much you owe, just whether or not you do.

They're not on the hook for my mortgage, so my mortgage is none of their business.

Do you realize that if I wanted to know how much you owe on your house all I need is your name and your address and the ability to do a little math? your mortgage is a matter of public record!

If it's a matter of public record, then let them look it up.

did you know there was one for adopting a child?

Yes, as I've explained to you before, my wife and I are the parents of an adopted child.

Race numbers can answer questions about migrant populations

That's why we have a Department of Immigration and Naturalization.

This has an impact on things like public transportation, road building and housing.

None of which have anything to do with the federal government.

Gender questions answer things like how many single fathers are out there compared to single mothers, how many same sex vs hetrosex families there are etc.

And why would the government need to know that?

This is to try to ensure that they haven't counted someone twice. For instance, one of my son's spends 50% of his time here, 25% of the time at his biological mother's, and 25% at his biological father's. Because I know BOTH of them will count him as living with them, I didn't count him as living here, but he does.

So, in other words, you and your boy's biological mother are too dumb to figure out which one of you has custody.

 

[Revmitchell]

See the Fourteenth Amendment.

Section. 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.


This says nothing about what questions can and cannot be asked in the census. You are making claims that are not substantiated.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Section. 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.


This says nothing about what questions can and cannot be asked in the census. You are making claims that are not substantiated.

The way the Constitution works is based on a principle called "specific enumeration". That is, that the government can only do what is specifically laid out in the Constitution.

 

[Revmitchell]

Government demands answers, but official confirms penalties not applied

"The Census Bureau has never prosecuted anybody," spokesman Clyve Richmond told WND. "We try to work with people and explain how useful the information is."

 

[JohnDeereFan]

"The Census Bureau has never prosecuted anybody," spokesman Clyve Richmond told WND. "We try to work with people and explain how useful the information is."

And the reason they've never prosecuted anyone is that they know it would never stand up in court. Do you have any idea how many civil liberties attorneys are waiting and just salivating over the chance to represent somebody in court for this?